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I assume this is a knockoff, but would like to know for sure...
Unread 10-15-2019, 04:29 PM   #1
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JohnPittman
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Default I assume this is a knockoff, but would like to know for sure...

Auction buy. Assume it is a knockoff but do not know enough about Parkers to be sure. I see the "Laminated Steel. Belgium" written on the barrel so assume it is not a Parker. Any help or info on what I have would be great. Thanks in advance.
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Unread 10-15-2019, 04:42 PM   #2
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todd allen
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The only thing I can say for sure, is that is not a Parker Brothers gun.
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Unread 10-15-2019, 06:46 PM   #3
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JABC = Just Another Belgium Clunker
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Unread 10-16-2019, 01:18 AM   #4
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Parker 'knockoff' guns were made from 1890-1910 including E. D. Parker, C. Parker & Co, T. Parker, Thomas Parker, W. Parker, T. Barker, and Thomas Barker. T. Parker New York guns were made by Crescent.
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Unread 10-16-2019, 08:04 AM   #5
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I would not call the Barker guns “knockoffs” as they do not bear the Parker name. The only way they may be mistaken that way is by someone with poor eyesight.

To call any of these guns a “knockoff” is a little of an assumption. They likely were named for a maker with the name Parker. And I do not know if the actual intent was to deceive uneducated buyers to think they are getting a better gun at a lower price. The name is the only thing that could be considered a “knockoff”, as the guns designs were nothing like that of Parker Bros.

Basically the easiest way to know period is that a Parker Bros gun was never build in Belgium or England. So, there you have it.
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Unread 10-16-2019, 08:47 AM   #6
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re: knockoffs

The Sept. 26 1889 issue of Forest and Stream reported a test of H & D Folsom's cheapest doubles and observed... “W. Richards” that nonentity in the gun trade, was stamped on the plate, but they were really only those cheap bits of ordnance which come through our custom houses, pay a duty of 40 per cent., and yet may be placed on the counters of the gun shop at $5 a piece. Forest and Stream has already in past times expressed its opinion about these pestiferous products of the penurious population clustered on Belgian soil.

This explains the "Laminated Steel, Belgium" rib marking

“Synopsis of decisions of the Treasury Department and Board of U.S. General Appraisers on the construction of tariff, immigration, and other laws, for year ending 1891”
http://books.google.com/books?id=L_x...J&pg=PA1207&dq
It has been the custom of manufacturers to stamp fictitious names of individuals and other trade words, such as “Richards”, “Western”, “U.S. Armes Co.”, etc., upon the lock plates or on the ribs connecting double-barrel guns imported at your port from Belgium; that in a number of recent importations of guns from Belgium there is a conspicuous absence of any words to indicate the country of origin, but on the contrary words have been found which represent to consumers that the guns are either of English or American manufacture, thus nullifying the object and intent of section 6 above referred to, and under these circumstances you request further instructions from the Department as to the marking of guns imported not only by Boker & Co., but by all others, whether in store or en route.
As it appears that it is practicable to stamp the name of the country of origin on the guns, you are hereby authorized, under and in pursuance of Department's decision of March 18. 1891 (Synopsis 10832) to deliver the guns covered by this and subsequent importations only upon such stamping, the language of said decision being that “where articles of foreign manufacture required to be marked under the provisions above referred to were ordinarily stamped at the time of the passage of said act, the name of the country of origin should be stamped thereon.”

Another creative name was "Sam Holt".
Some Thomas Parkers were made by Pieper, and Simonis, Janessen, Dumoulin and Co. made a Thomas Parker The Invincible Gun. Some T. Barkers were by Janssen Fils & Cie.

Another Belgian "Parker" with a not quite the Parker dog's head butt



If the OP would removed the barrels and post full size in focus close ups of every mark on the barrel and action flats we might be able to ID the maker.
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Unread 10-16-2019, 04:54 PM   #7
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If you come across a W. Richards for sale check the proof marks before you pass it by. It might be made by this company,
https://www.wrichardsguns.co.uk/
They've been making some very fine doubles since 1780 and the two mid range box locks I've seen were high quality. If someone thinks they have a cheap knock off and price it that way let a nice seller know.
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Unread 10-16-2019, 05:06 PM   #8
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Do not confuse www.wrichardsguns.co.uk with www.westleyrichards.com

I don't believe Westley Richards ever marked their guns with simply "W. Richards", but always with "Westley Richards".
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Unread 10-16-2019, 05:12 PM   #9
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Yes, the families aren't related, but both companies made fine shotguns for the last few centuries. W. Richards probably cursed Westley Richards as knock offs when they opened in 1812, 32 years after they did.
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Unread 10-16-2019, 06:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonPeck View Post
Parker 'knockoff' guns were made from 1890-1910 including E. D. Parker, C. Parker & Co, T. Parker, Thomas Parker, W. Parker, T. Barker, and Thomas Barker. T. Parker New York guns were made by Crescent.
there were Parkers that began making guns in the late 1600's in England

in the 1800's they made Birmingham guns for a generation or two, we have seen a few asked about here in the past

there were knock offs made in Belgium to trade off the name. just as many guns marked W. Richards will show Belgium proofs and an display obvious lack of quality. There were cheap imitations of several mid level makers who relied on the export trade. Since the style of the JABC's tend to mimic the Birmingham hammer guns - i have always assumed the victims of the fraud were the modest makers of the Gunmaker's Quarters not the brothers in Connecticut
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