why is my Fox a Parker?

[Keavin Nelson]

As I have just finished restocking a Fox-Parker,(bottom gun) thought I would provide pictures for comparison. The Parker is a 2 Frame, by my direct measurements the Fox action tangs are a bit longer, about 1/2". The action length measured from breach face to end of the knuckle is essentially identical. Breach width is almost identical. The for-end tang on the Fox is longer by about 3/8" and as you can see the latch sits forward a bit. Picture for comparison.

[RickR]

Thanks again all. I'm especially glad Bruce chimed in. To the action length and Parker copy thoughts, yes when I was going through the old photos, there was a shot of my gun rack from 1976, and my first thought was "I don't remember that Parker" then oops, it was my Philly "B". If I could figure out how to get an old B/W photo to print here, that picture also shows my early "A", and the different length of the longer action on the Philly gun is very obvious and its easy to see why the AH Fox action weighs less than a like sized Parker.

Aside, mine has the J spring forend, and one of the known issues was the seller said the forend was a little loose. (This is gonna feel great if the problem and my fix isn't known.) The forend iron was bent slightly and so would rock a bit when the J spring pushes the tang tight against the barrel lug (it was very easy to miss the problem as the bend can't be seen with the wood in place. I only caught it because I attacked the problem with the forend wood removed.) While the forend iron's tang is pretty massive, the cut out for the J spring makes it weak at that spot and easier to bend, but also easier to straighten. A couple of raps with the tang spread across open vise jaws did the trick.

RickR

[Researcher]

There were some early Lefevers with the recessed hinge pin, and several of the J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. doubles had a slightly recessed hinge pin.

There was just a bit of drama over Parker Bros. Trojan Grade's forearm fastening --

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being a patent infringement of the A.H. Fox Gun Co.'s Patent No. 1,029,374 granted to J.C. Kremer & A.H. Fox on June 11, 1912. After the A.H. Fox Gun Co. quit using the Baker J-spring forearm on their The Sterlingworth Company guns, and the Sterlingworth became an A.H. Fox Gun Co. gun, they went to using the J.C. Kremer & A.H. Fox forearm fastening on their extractor Sterlingworths and their extractor small-bores of all grades.

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They used their F.T. Russell Patent No. 1,029,229 forearm fastening on their ejector Sterlingworths and their ejector small-bores of all grades.

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Several decades ago, before I was quite so focused on this historical minutia, Babe DelGrego showed me a file of letters he had between Parker Bros. and A.H. Fox Gun Co. about this. Unfortunately I don't recall any details of the letters, but we know that the A.H. Fox eventually quit using their J.C. Kremer & A.H. Fox type fastening and went to using the F.T. Russel style on both extractor and ejector guns.

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[Bill Murphy]

I have a Model 21 with a snap on forend, but by 1930, I think all the forend attachment drama was over. But then, why didn't Winchester stay with the snap forend if it could have saved them some money. The Model 21 was a $57.50 gun, or less, at its introduction. Saving a buck or two on each gun would have meant something.

[James L. Martin]

I have never seen a model 21 with a snap on forearm? I know the early ones had a slightly different release.

[Big D]

Don't know the proper term, but I find the roller-type latch on my M21's awkward

[James L. Martin]

The model 21 latch is different and it takes getting used too.