Parker 13 gauge?

[Richard B. Hoover]

Jack,

Did you get measurements at several points along each barrel of your gun? If so could you please post these values? I am very much interested in these results as I am trying to get better understanding of the bores and chambers of the very early (pre-1975) under lifter hammer guns.

Thanks,

Richard

[Jack Hamner]

Originally Posted by Richard B. Hoover

Bruce,

Thanks, those are good points. However, The chamber dimensions on page 519 of The Parker Story are good for later model Parkers in 8, 10, 12, etc. gauges only. This table does not cover all the chamber sizes found in the early under lifter guns. These were typically chambered for 10A or 10B, 11 paper or 11B brass, or 12 paper, 12A or 12B or extremely rarely for the 14A brass shells. Many of the early Parker 11-gauge guns were chambered for Parker or UMC brass 12A shells, which have the same dimensions as the modern 12 ga shell as shown on TPS pgs. 544-550. Some 11's were even chambered for 10A shells. Some of the underlifter 12-gauge guns were chambered for 12B brass shells, which can lead to confusion and the conclusion that these guns are 13 or 14 gauge (Just as was reported by Larry Baer for the Parker Prototype no. 06 in the Meriden Historical Society,which has perfect 12-bore barrels and was chambered for 2"long brass shells of diameter that can accept a modern 14 gauge shell.

Richard

So am I right in thinking that what you're saying is mine is still probably a 12b?

[Jack Hamner]

Originally Posted by Richard B. Hoover

Bruce,

Thanks, those are good points. However, The chamber dimensions on page 519 of The Parker Story are good for later model Parkers in 8, 10, 12, etc. gauges only. This table does not cover all the chamber sizes found in the early under lifter guns. These were typically chambered for 10A or 10B, 11 paper or 11B brass, or 12 paper, 12A or 12B or extremely rarely for the 14A brass shells. Many of the early Parker 11-gauge guns were chambered for Parker or UMC brass 12A shells, which have the same dimensions as the modern 12 ga shell as shown on TPS pgs. 544-550. Some 11's were even chambered for 10A shells. Some of the underlifter 12-gauge guns were chambered for 12B brass shells, which can lead to confusion and the conclusion that these guns are 13 or 14 gauge (Just as was reported by Larry Baer for the Parker Prototype no. 06 in the Meriden Historical Society,which has perfect 12-bore barrels and was chambered for 2"long brass shells of diameter that can accept a modern 14 gauge shell.

Richard

So am I right in thinking that what you're saying is mine is still probably a 12b? Thanks, Jack.

[Richard B. Hoover]

Originally Posted by Jack Hamner

So am I right in thinking that what you're saying is mine is still probably a 12b? Thanks, Jack.

Jack,

Your gun is a cylinder bore (no choke) 12-gauge.

If you want to shoot it you need to get some 12B brass shells and hand load them. The reason it is particularly interesting is that it is widely believed that the early 12 gauge Parker shotguns were significantly over bored. However the Parker order books show that almost all of the 11-gauge Parker's were chambered for the 12A brass shells. Bill Furnish and I measured a number of early under lifter Parker 12-gauge guns that were chambered for the smaller 12B (like your gun) or 11B (like John Hanson' no. 2505 Parker) brass shells.

These mysteries are finally beginning to make a lot of sense.

Thanks for your help.

Richard

[Dean Romig]

Here's John Hansen's Parker No. 2505 with Parker Bros 12B shells in the original case.



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[Richard B. Hoover]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

Here's John Hansen's Parker No. 2505 with Parker Bros 12B shells in the original case.



.

Dean,

Thanks for posting the images of John Hansen's Parker b2505. I measured the bores of that gun and they are perfect 0.729" 12-gauge size bores. In the images you posted you can not read the Parker Headstamp, but if you have higher resolution photos you will see that these shells are all bearing the extremely rare Parker 11B head stamp and the chambers are of 11B dimension. This is another early example that proves that Parker made early under lifter guns that we're not over bored, but conformed precisely to the well established definitions of perfect bore sizes for 8-ga; 10-ga; 11-ga and 12--ga guns. Furthermore, the powder and shot charge loads they used for proof testing were consistent with the Birmingham Proof House requirements as set forth in the British proof act.

If you have higher resolution images of the 11B shells perhaps you could also post them.

Dean, Thanks for those great images of a truly magnificent Early Parker Underlifter.

Yours,

Richard B. Hoover

[Dean Romig]

Richard, I checked my photo file on this gun and I don't have any images that clearly show the headstamps. I presumed they were 12B shells because all I could make out was the Parker Bros., the West Meriden, Ct., and the B but the gauge stamp is not legible at all in any of my photos. I photographed the gun in 2009 and I should have made sure the pictures I took were sharp. If I ever get to see the gun again I'll do a better job of it.

It's really good to have you back here on the forum after your absence of a few years. Your expertise and knowledge of these old Parkers is a tremendous resource for the entire "Parker community". Thank you!

Best, Dean

[Dean Romig]

Frank Cronin has the twin to John Hansen's in terms of grade, condition and features, but I don't recall the gauge of Frank's wonderful gun... perhaps Frank will come on and tell us about his gun.

[Richard B. Hoover]

Dean,

Thanks for the kind words. We visited with John during the trip to Ilion and Meriden that Charlie, Ron, Sam! Ed and I took in 1996. I am pretty sure I included details about B2505 in an article I wrote for Parker Pages in 1996 or 1997, but I can't find my copies of those old issues. I think Ron Kirby wrote an article about the trip as well. Do you still have a complete set of the Parker Pages from this period? Is there a Table of Contents listing of the articles and are copies still available?

Richard

[Richard B. Hoover]

Dean,

I found the Parker Pages index and see that Charlie Herzog also wrote an article about our ilion and Meriden trip and that Ron Kirby May have solved the F.9.R. Mystery. Are these old issues available in hard copy or .pdf form?

Richard