Aarrgh----Gunsmithing Question

[Bruce Day]

Ok, I have a 1921 PHE 16. A year ago Simmons had it in for rebrazing of the forend lug. Before that, it opened normally, you removed the forend, opened the lever and the barrels came off hammers cocked or hammers let down. After I got it back, the barrels will only come off if the hammers are fired.

So I removed the trigger plate tonight, but did not drive out the sear pin or remove the frame from the stock. I cleaned the cocking slide thoroughly with Rem Action Cleaner, cleaned everything, the cocking slide slides, everything looks fine to me. Then I reassembled the trigger plate to the frame, and nothing is changed. It still requires me to let down the hammers before I can remove the barrels. There is no rust , no crud , all the parts seem to move freely to me. I don't think this is a barrrel cocking hook problem, but that was unchanged and moves freely. The barrels will rotate up, then catch and not rotate all the way. The barrel cocking hook is obviously catching on the frame cocking crank and will not release.

When Simmons rebrazed the forend lug, they had to reblue the barrels, but that seems unrelated to this issue.

So, any ideas about what is wrong, yeah I can live with it, I have for the last year, but I am picky about my guns and this bugs me. Ultimately I can send it off to Lawrence DG and will if something is really wrong, but I can't figure this one.

[Bruce Day]

Its late and I kept at it until I found the problem. The cocking hook was not releasing because it was not retracting far enough back. That is because, grrrrrr, Simmons gunsmith put the cocking hook from another gun in my gun. I had two guns there, one was a 20ga for them to copy the barrels for other PGCA members. As you know, that didn't work out and when I got those barrels back, the cocking hook was gone, I made a special trip back and they fished around in a box of parts until they said they found it. But that cocking hook is from a gun ending in 004 , but it works properly.

So the cocking hook in the 16ga I left with them for the forend lug , they took out, obviously threw in the parts drawer, but luckily they put back in the cocking hook belonging to my pattern gun there. So now I have switched those around, and one gun has the right hook, but the other has a hook belonging to a 004. So I know Tom Carter had a gun there and maybe that was 004. So I might have his and if anybody has an 859 hook, that's mine. I'd like to trade with whoever has the 859 cocking hook, the gun is a favorite family gun and I take care of it.

Obviously Simmons, being Mod 12 people , didn't know that Parker parts were hand fitted and not necessarily interchangeable, and maybe some gunsmiths don't understand that you have to keep the parts straight when you are working on a gun.

[Dean Romig]

That's very good to know Bruce... not that parts from other Parkers might not fit properly - most of us know that - but that an esteemed gunsmithing company didn't know it.

[Bruce Day]

I've loaded two pictures, the first is the P cocking hook which doesn't retract far enough. The second is a cocking hook on a C which does retract far enough to allow the barrels to come off without releasing the hammers. You can see that the difference is very small but important and to somebody not experienced in Parkers, easily overlooked.

Fortunately the problem is solved but somebody still has my original cocking hook and I have his. Thankfully they didn't take apart the triggers or sears.

[Big D]

Have you tried contacting Simmons? Perhaps they can check their order book around that time and give you some leads. Maybe they log guns in by SN.

[Bruce Day]

No, John. They did not. But there were only a few guns there for the new barrels that Simmons said they were going to make, so I am hopeful I can track it down. I have a call in to my friend Tom Carter.

A person might think that when a part is serial numbered to a gun that it is specially fitted and should be put back into the same gun instead of being thrown into a parts drawer and mixed up, but .........

[Bill Murphy]

Bruce, this is a very diplomatic post considering the true story of the "Simmons Barrel Project".

[Austin W Hogan]

I don't think it is unusual to find differing numbers on small and internal Parker parts. I have found some on my own guns when having ejectors and triggers repaired. We found many locks and hammers with differing numbers when preparing the lock and hammer articlles for Parker Pages.

Best, Austin

[Bruce Day]

I certainly understand that. Circumstances may require that salvaged parts be purposefully put into another gun when the parts break or become excessively worn, and then they might have to be fitted to the gun.

Best,
Bruce

[Opening Day]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

I certainly understand that. Circumstances may require that salvaged parts be purposefully put into another gun when the parts break or become excessively worn, and then they might have to be fitted to the gun.

Best,
Bruce

But that is not the reason here, is it...?