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modern shell in old gun
Unread 09-22-2011, 06:53 PM   #1
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William Ladue
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Default modern shell in old gun

i have a 1904 vh 12g and was wondering what modern shells are safe to shoot out of the gun from dove loads to buckshot? the gun is in good shape and is tight. i'm just looking for some opinions. thanks

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Unread 09-22-2011, 11:02 PM   #2
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Hi William,

We here on the PGCA site have gone over and over this question several times before and there are a lot of opinions expressed both pro and con the use of modern (factory) loads in our old Parkers.
I think the consensus is that if your VH is built on a 2-frame there is no question that it will be quite OK with modern factory loads but do NOT use 3" shells in it. Basically, a 1 1/2-frame should be able to take most of the same loads but you may want to keep away from a steady diet of magnum or heavy loads.

But first - be very certain that your Parker is in safe shooting condition.
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Unread 09-22-2011, 11:15 PM   #3
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William: Dean gives you good advice, but be sure that the chambers have not been lengthened when you have your gunsmith check it out. I usually advise against using "high brass" express or magnum loads in Parkers as they were not designed for them, If you stick with "low brass" dove & quail loads your Parker should last forever with reasonable care.

Best Regards, George
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Unread 09-23-2011, 06:55 AM   #4
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Modern factory loads, be they "high brass" or "low brass" may very well be close to the SAAMI maximum pressure which for a 12 gauge 2 & 3/4" or 3" is 11,500 PSI. This is especially true with the promotional shells sold at Wall Mart and other such retailers. They usually come priced at 100 rounds for about $22. The high pressure may very well in time loosen the gun's action.

Recoil is different than pressure and if high will split the head of an old stock. Simply recoil involves the total weight of the shot and shot cup, weight of the powder, velocity all pushing against the weight of the gun. For example, ammunition may have a small payload, i.e. 7/8 oz in a 12 gauge, but be loaded with whatever powder is cheapest for the manufacturer to load. The recoil may be light but inside the barrel the pressure may be high. Did you ever see the pressure listed on the shell box?

High brass loads with their heavy payloads of 1 1/4 oz to 1 1/2 oz or more shot will hammer your 100+ year old wood! That stated, if your Parker is in good shape and you shoot a dozen or so heavy pheasant loads the stock will probably survive. If you shoot many boxes of those loads the stock will likely split at the head. A dark, oil soaked stock head is likely to split under heavy recoil. Take a look at guns on line and notice that the old, well used Parkers have stock heads that are almost black. They are like a sponge of oil. The oil softens the wood. Split stocks are why we see old Parkers with the bolt through the head of the stock. Oh boy! Those guns were used and if only they could tell us of their adventures!

Personally I hand load 6000 PSI 7/8 oz loads for clay targets (weekly use) but will stuff 1 3/8 factory loads into a 2 & 3/4" #2 frame Parker in good condition for hunting without hesitation.

Concerning buckshot, it may cause a problem when passing through a tightly constricted barrel such as a full choke. Many Parkers were constricted at .040" which delivered 70% full choke patterns in those years before plastic shot cups and hardened "magnum" shot were available. A full choke barrel of recent manufacture is likely bored with .030" constriction.

If you want to shoot buckshot through those 107 years old Parker barrels you should measure the barrel wall thickness and choke constriction. You should also measure the petals of ammunition's shot cup. The petal thickness should be at least as thick as the barrel constriction. This will provide a cushion of twice the amount of the barrel constriction (choke) so that the buckshot may pass through the "choke" without splitting the barrel! Yes, there is a risk in shooting any very large shot through old, low carbon barrels.

If you do not have the tools and/or knowledge to measure your barrels and the petals of a shot cup then please don't shoot buckshot through your old Parker. This may seem overly cautious but better safe than sorry!

Go out and shoot your old Parker!

Mark


PS: Below are SAAMI maximum pressures

10 gauge 11,000 (all)
12 gauge 11,5000 (all but 3 1/2" mag)
12 gauge 3 1/2" mag 14,000
16 gauge 11,500 (all)
20 Gauge 12,000 (all)
28 gauge 12,500 (all)
.410 Bore 2 1/2" 12,500
.410 Bore 3" 13,500
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Unread 09-23-2011, 08:58 AM   #5
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thanks for the info. when i received the gun the stock was loose and full of oil from cleanings over the years and had a pin or two in it and was unshootable. i took it to a local gunshop and they sent it to a gunsmith and had the stock replaced. i think it cost me $350.00 in the early 1990's. it has 26" barrels and i am not sure of the choke constriction. also is there a way to track who bought the gun. i was told that it was my grandfathers but he would have had to received it when he was 3 years old. i'm thinking that it could be a great or a 2 great or even a 3 great grandfathers gun.
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Unread 09-23-2011, 01:51 PM   #6
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It is unlikely that a VH grade Parker was special ordered so the original owner may be hard to identify.

A Parker research letter may however provide what store ordered it. Since this is a family gun you may discover that it was ordered by the hardware store in great-great grandpa's town. That would be good to know.
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