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12-09-2010, 09:52 AM | #23 | ||||||
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Shane,
If you can buy bulk (loose shot) Tungston Matrix please do so and load up!!! You will of course owe me your source since I've never seen bulk TI for sale. ITX is okay at best. Some like Bismuth which provides good performance but not that of TI or lead. Nice Shot is my favorite of the AVAILABLE non-toxic loads. It provides performance close to lead. My load of an ounce and a eight of #2 in a 12 bore at 1200 FPS laid out Canada Geese over my pond at 60 yards. I also used 1 and 3/8 oz in 10 bores with equal success! During the early goose season I had an incident of multiple severely wombed geese with two shoots from a rather well used EH Parker. I wish I had a witness and photo of that! Oh, it was one of those days when I was glad it was the early season allows a bag limit of 5 geese! Yup, filled my limit with 2 shots to drop them and 2 perhaps unnecessary clean up shots. Be advised that the hardness of Nice Shot raises pressures by apporimately 1500 PSI (per their website). I started with a 7000 PSI load and with the additional 1500 PSI well in the safe working range of my GOOD CONDITION LC Smiths and Parker #2 and 3 Frame Damascus barreled guns. If you shoot Damascus You will of course have to determine if your gun meets the condition and design for a given pressures. Please refer to page 515 of the Parker story for Service Working Limits for pressure for each of Parker's gauges and frame sizes. Shoot well and shoot safely, Mark |
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12-09-2010, 11:02 AM | #24 | ||||||
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Mark, I can indeed buy all the non toxic shot I need together with the components but what I am struggling to get together is a kit to do the reloading plus get some data for suitable loads. I was also looking at getting some brass cases made rather than having to buy the big plastics and cut them down.
I see from your profile you are in S E Michigan which means that the import costs would be prohibitive from the local supplier I have found. http://www.claygame.co.uk/Cat22Page13Shot.pdf |
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12-09-2010, 11:02 AM | #25 | ||||||
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ballistic products
ITX Shot (bag/7 lbs) $129.00 TEAL TAKER LOAD Load# 80611-368 HULL: FIOCCHI 12-gauge 2.75” (#064121600)(#64121602)(#0641208) PRIMER: FIO616 PROPELLANT: HODGDON UNIVERSAL CLAYS 25.0 Grains WAD: BP TPS35MM Pre-slit(#3227735) Mica dust wad please. SHOT: 7/8 ounce ITX #4 shot (382 grains). BUFFER: None FOLD CRIMP: 6-point (Recommended for new hulls). Over shot, #OS12 card used. Results: 9600 PSI 1365 FPS EARLY GOOSE GETTER Load# 80611-371 HULL: FIOCCHI 12-gauge 3.50” PRIMER: FIO616 PROPELLANT: HODGDON UNIVERSAL CLAYS 31.0 Grains WAD: X12X(#322X12X) + TPS1275(#3227701) Mica dust wad please. SHOT: 1 1/4 ounce ITX BB shot (546 grains). BUFFER: None. FOLD CRIMP: 6-point (Recommended for new hulls). Over shot, #OS12 used. Results: 12500 PSI 1380 FPS
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Freedom is not free! Last edited by richard lambert; 12-09-2010 at 11:08 AM.. Reason: added data |
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12-09-2010, 11:25 AM | #26 | ||||||
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Shane,
Send me a PM with your email and I'll send Sherman Bell's 10 Ga loading data. Mr Bell did the "Finding Out For Myself" research in DGJ that a lot of us rely on. The ITM available from your supplier would be perfect for your Thomas Bland. If you use a load recipe for lead add 2000 PSI to it for the harder non-toxic and you should be fine in that nitro proofed gun. There are many 6000-7000 PSI lead loads that with any extra pressure from ITM a nitro proofed gun would be fine with. But, if you notice any flatness of the primer the pressure is getting up there... Mark |
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12-09-2010, 03:22 PM | #27 | ||||||
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I'm missing something. All other things being equal, why would harder non-tox shot generate higher pressures?
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12-09-2010, 03:28 PM | #28 | ||||||
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John,
During firing the bottom rows of lead shot are crushed/deformed providing a cushion which reduces peak pressure. This concept is similar to how a piston of a plastic shot cup reduces deformed shot and also lessens pressure. Mark |
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12-09-2010, 03:31 PM | #29 | ||||||
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"Flatness of the Primer" Mark could you explain this to me?
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"Much care is bestowed to make it what the Sportsman needs-a good gun"-Charles Parker |
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12-09-2010, 04:20 PM | #30 | ||||||
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All other factors remaining constant such as the chamber/gun, type of hull, and primer, when pressures continue to raise a primer will eventually be pushed against the flat wall of the breach.
I have often seen primers from my trapshooting friends' reloads that have been pushed flat against the breach face. Their loads often exceed 1300 PFS for 1 and 1/8 oz. Now, the pressure of those rounds may have been within the 11,500 SAAMI 12 gauge working maximum but they are far above what I desire to shoot in a Damascus gun! If you load the same hulls and primers at 6000 psi and also 10,000 psi take a look at the edge of the primer cups where it curves from the flat portion that the firing pin/hammer strikes. The primers from higher pressure loads will start to loose their curve. When pressure is higher (not necessarily too high) that portion of the primer will fill in. I have noticed a slight flattening of primers with my hunting loads. This is not referenced to any measurement of pressure but it does indicate that something is happening! Here is a photo of a flattened primer from a rifle. There is a lot of debate about this subject on the reloading and rifle and pistol shooting forums. My experiance from loading for both rifle and pistol is that when I pushed to the top of the loading data the primers flattened out upon firing. Also, when the bolt was hard to open the primer was very, very flat! PS: If I opened my Parker and noticed primers as flat as in the photo I would drop me my knees and thank God for sparing me from my stupidity! |
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