Parker 3 inch guns

[LtCol Henderson Marriott]

Thanks Bill. I will try to get hold of him, but feel free to mention this effort if you will.
I have been away from the Parker fold for awhile.

Have been tempted to take the family AAHE on turkey hunts, but end up reaching for the Super Fox or the Smith Long Range Waterfowl. The real advantage of long range vintage doubles-DTs-is an immediate ability to choose a different shot size shell with each barrel-depending on the hunting situation and fowl.

I really am interested in seeing how a Parker 3 inch gun patterns, and it probably
will be a later Remington version. The later Super Fox and Sterlingworth Long Range
Waterfowl shotguns were built during the 1930s Savage-Fox era, and the Depression with reduced conservation limits on ducks -all contributed to reduce new shotgun demand. Tight chambers, over boring, and extra heavy choking insured the Fox
heavy framed Supers would shoot well at long range. However, records indicate only about 35 Sterlingworth Wildfowl Grades with Super barrels and frames were made.

My tests with a personal Super Fox 3 in came close to Frank Srebro's Sterlingworth 3 in with 1 5/8 oz of No. 4 shot with W-W Super X older shot shells: 82 % patterns at 50 yards with
48 % patterns at 58 yards. The Winchester Heavy Duck M-12 was not far off
at 79% and 40% same range and loadings. The LC Smith Long Range split the difference
in percentages with 81% and 44% respectively. Best patterns with No 5 shot by W-W 3-in were 90% at 50 yds with the Super Fox. Close to what Fox claimed and Crossman-
Askins-Buckingham found in CERTAIN Fox guns.

Wonder how the expensive HeviShot/Bismuth will pattern? Plan to find out, but probably not with the AAHE Parker anytime soon. Need to borrow a 3 inch Parker.

[Cold Spring]

Thanks Sir for overviewing this information much of which had been communicated to long range SxS disciples through various books, DGJ articles and posts on the Fox site. Regarding Capt Crossman giving a 10 yard "out ranging" to the Super-Fox over the LCS Long Range and the Model 12 Heavy Duck, I am still skeptical that he ever wrote that. It seems to be second hand lore somehow tied to Buck and Askins perhaps to add some credence. But in fact Askins - who did a phenomenal amount of patterning - is in print (prior to the intro of the Model 12 HD), stating that the Super-Fox and the LCS Long Range were about on par as to long range performance with period 3-inch loads.

There is more to long range pattern efficiency/percentages than overboring and "degree of choke" as measured in thousandths. A few firings of a single LCS LR or S-F for long range patterning might make for a interesting article but the results can't be taken to the bank so to speak.

frank

[10 bore]

I had a lettered 3 in. 3 frame vhe 32 in str. Gripped parker.
Scott

[Researcher]

FWIW from a couple of Parker catalogs --

Parker Long Range -- In the 1929 "Flying Geese" catalogue the Brothers P had this to say -- "Magnum, Super, and variously named guns about which so much is now being written are not a new development in the gun makers' art.

For the past twenty years Parker Brothers have made guns to handle heavy charges of powder and shot, giving good patterns at long range. Recent improvements in powder and by shell manufacturers have served to make the Parker Long Range gun even more effective, so that today the Parker built and bored to secure the full power of modern loads with which one may confidently expect to bring down game at distances a few years ago considered impossible, is up to date but not new.

Parker Long Range guns are built to guard the user against abnormal recoil. The weight of the barrels is so distributed that the gun handles the heaviest loads with comfort. The purchaser of a Parker Long Range can rest assured that he will receive a gun, easy to handle, sufficiently heavy and properly bored to shoot the heaviest loads for the killing of wild fowl at extreme ranges."

The 1937 Remington era catalogue adds -- "Ordinarily Parker 12 gauge guns are chambered for shells up to and including 2 3/4 inches. These guns can be furnished with special long range choke boring to give more effective results at extreme ranges. 12 gauge double barrel guns, with the exception of the "Trojan" are also available with 3 inch chambers for use with maximum long range heavy loaded shells. So chambered, Parker guns are guaranteed to handle these shells properly."

"Parker 10 gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 7/8 inch loads, but are also available with 3 1/2 inch chambers for use with maximum loads. No extra charge for a Parker Long Range Gun. Guns should never be used with shells longer than those for which they are chambered. See table of complete specifications on page 34."

During that time period Remington Arms Co., Inc. never chambered any of their pumps or autoloaders for longer shells, but did offer their "Long Range" choking for an additional charge.

Long Range Model 31TC.jpg

Long Range Sportsman.jpg

I've never had a chance to run a bore mic in such a Remington barrel, but the two Remington Model 31TC vent ribbed trap barrels I have had a chance to run a bore mic in were .744" while my skeet and field Model 31 barrels have regular bore diameters.

[Cold Spring]

Written by Capt Edward C Crossman, July 1926, in the Field and Stream magazine:

Parker Brothers are out with what they call Long Range guns with 3-inch chambers, mostly with 34 inch barrels. With all respect to the makers of one of the best guns in the world, all I have seen of such specimens were muzzle-heavy, like other makes of this type. They would cut down rather than add to a man's duck shooting ability at ordinary ranges and in the hands of a man of ordinary strength and duck shooting knowledge.


And here indeed is what Capt Crossman wrote in the same article after testing a L C Smith Long Range against two 3-inch Super-Foxes, no mention of "out ranging" by one maker or the other.

The new type Smith ….. also shot a mean of 80% or better, using Western Super X , 3-inch Ajax Heavies loaded to order, and some Western 3-inch cases with Western components loaded by du Pont to give nearly 1,000 feet with No. 4 shot

N.B. the 1,000 feet cited by the Cap is the average velocity between the muzzle and 40 yards, as shotgun velocity was reported in those days.

[Bill Murphy]

Crossman may state "most with 34" barrels", but empirical study doesn't jive with that. Muzzle heavy doesn't jive with my experience either. Remington era 3" guns I have seen have been on 1 1/2 frames. I think Capt. Crossman is forwarding information that he thinks is true, not what he has experienced. That is what we have seen in the gun press in the thirties through the seventies concerning shotguns. The authors were mostly rifle guys and spit out shared incorrect shotgun information in their writings. As an aside, I would like to see a Parker letter describing a 3" gun in the period from 1926, when Crossman wrote that article, to the Remington era when 3" markings appeared on the barrel lug of barrels not marked on the ribs. I guess Chuck Bishop could conduct some of this research if he is interested.

[LtCol Henderson Marriott]

These observations from historical experience have achieved the desired result: Parker, AH Fox, and LC Smith adapted their shotguns to the new progressive powders first seen in the 1923-25 work of John Olin. The plain unmarked boxes of 3 inch #4 shot shells first delivered to T. Nash Buckingham sparked a continued interest in long range wildfowl shotgunning that still exists today. Mr. Buck preferred copper plated #4s.

Shot columns of the 1920s and progressive powders have given way to plastic cups and power pistons.
The heavier-than-lead non-toxic shot shells have the potential to extend maximum effective range-if not measured range-
even further, particularly for duck, goose and turkey hunting. It remains to be seen how
the newer non-toxics with shot column modifications perform in individual shotguns by Parker, AH Fox and LC Smith. Certainly any extended testing will get pricey considering the current cost of even a few boxes of Bismuth-HEVISHOT and others heavier -than-lead now on the market.

[Phil C]

I have a Parker Hammer gun made in 1890 that letters to 3” chambers per customers request.

[Drew Hause]

Complicating the survey of 3" chambered Parker guns will be the fact that many turn-of-the-century trap shooters ordered 2 7/8", 3" and even 3 1/4" chambers.

October 19, 1895 Sporting Life
Dr. J.L. Williamson, of Milwaukee, Wis., has just purchased a new gun of more than ordinary proportions. The Doctor was quite taken with Carver's Cashmore gun, having long barrels and shooting a big load in a 3 1/4 inch shell; but desiring to give the American gunmakers a chance he ordered a gun from the Lefever Arms Company, of Syracuse, N. Y. but at the same time rather doubted their ability to make such a weapon as he desired. However, the gun was furnished and Dr. Williamson killed 79 out of 80 live birds on one trial, and 74 out of 75 targets, part being doubles.
The gun is a Lefever, 12-gauge, weighing 8 1/4 pounds, 32-inch barrels, and chambered for a 3 1/4 inch shell (possibly with a 3" chamber), and guaranteed to stand 4 1/2 Drams of “E.C.” powder, which is the amount of powder which he uses.

In Feb. 1898, C.W. Budd received on consignment a Parker $400 AAH Pigeon Gun SN 87449 with 30” Whitworth barrels F/F and 2 7/8” chambers (likely for 3" shells).

A Cashmore Pigeon Gun 3 1/4" cases. I don't know the chamber length.



Interestingly, the 1894-95 Montgomery Ward catalog listed "The Parker Long Range"

[Drew Hause]

Smith LRWF marketing verbiage touted "special boring" -

"A distinctive L.C. Smith method of choking adds 15 to 20 yards to ordinary shotgun range...specially bored to a longer, tapering choke..."



But LRWF bores are usually .730 without tapering to the choke constriction of about 3 inches.

Despite the "clean kills at 80 yds." claims, this is pattern testing by David Williamson with .042" choke 32" LRWF at a measured 80 yards using 3 inch Winchester (plastic) hull with 38.35 grains of Blue Dot, Winchester 209 primer, Winchester AASL wad, and 1 3/8 ounces of #5 nickel plated shot. The average number of pellets was 246 and measured weight 1.353 ounce. Number of pellets in duck for 3 shots: 5,6 & 6. Pattern % in 30" circle: 5.3 = 13 pellets, 8.1 = 20 pellets & 8.5 = 21 pellets.