Why is the 8 bore illegal for waterfowl/migratory game?

[George M. Purtill Member #28]

I know there was a law passed in 1918 but can my fellow 8 bore shooters explain the rationale.
Was it considered an unfair advantage? [It aint no punt gun.]

Does the rationale still hold when we have 3.5 inch magnum 10 and 12 gauge guns?

Who wants to be a plaintiff?

[OH Osthaus]

#1 - its government - rational has nothing to do with it.

I don't think the migratory bird act of 1918 did outlaw the 8 guage - the firearms act of 1938 did. it may have seemed to have been thought too big, killing or crippling more birds with a single sho

the extra long 12's and 10 came around after the ban.

it is still legal in the UK - where the more logical answer is - if you are only going to shoot so many birds - what does it matter what you shoot them with.

[J.B. Books]

Why is the length of any gauge shell restricted to 3.5"? Why is lead shot banned from use on waterfowl? Why is there a 3 shot plug law? Because government reacts to perceived problems through regulation of the associated activities. It draws lines and places restrictions on the activity, and sometimes those lines are based on flawed science and logic or worse, political gain.

At the turn of the 20th century market hunting was considered to be threatening waterfowl populations. I believe the restrictions started with the Weeks-McClean Act of 1913 and then fortified with the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918. There was a belief that guns larger than 10 gauge gave gunners too great an advantage over their quarry. Enough legislators believed it was part of the problem so it became law. My guess is even back then most of the government officials voting on such a restriction had no practical experience using those large guns, but they felt like they did something to protect waterfowl populations.

Actually it appears the gauge restriction came about in a 1936 Migratory Bird Act/Treaty. I am not clear if it amended the law/treaty of 1918 or was a new one.

[charlie cleveland]

tom arbrust has tried to have this law changed but with no luck yet...in his book 4 and 8 bores he writes of this....someone once stated a law is not to hard to get passed and be made legal but its almost impossible to get that law changed....me i love the old 8 bore sure would be nice to use it one time on a goose or duck hunt without having to look over your shoulder... charlie

[George M. Purtill Member #28]

So...... is my gut uneducated opinion correct? Is the 12 and 10 3.5 inch shell just about as powerful as the 8 bore?
Is the shot load comparable?

[Big Friend Ten (BFT)]

George,

With all else being equal, i.e. weight of size of shot, shot hardness. cushioning of wad, velocity an so on, a larger bore will produce a more evenly distributed pattern. Allowing that three pellets in the vitals kills birds cleanly (same for humans) an evenly distributed pattern makes a larger bore gun more effective than a smaller bore.

The modern 3.5" 12 gauge allowed for a larger payload of the less dense than lead steel shot. It is in my never humble opinion as effective as an equal load of lead or soft non-toxic shot in a 2 & 7/8" 10 gauge.

Bigger bore equals a more effective pattern. Better patterns kill better and at longer ranges.

Mark

[Dennis]

Just to throw my own 2 cents in here: First I agree that the 8 bore would be a great goose gun. My belief though as to why it is outlawed is because market hunters years ago shot indiscriminately into flocks of waterfowl sitting on the water and killed many but wounded others. I doubt any of us would condone this as a sporting way to hunt. The government then outlawed the bigger bores and had to stop somewhere so it stopped at the 10 bore. I believe had the hunters of yesteryear used any shotgun in a more sporting manner there would have not been any law passed restricting the size of the shotgun to a specific area of bore size. One more thing; one of the above writers mentioned the restriction of shotshell length over 3 1/2 inches. To my knowledge anyone can use any length shotshell they choose or that the manufacturers will produce. There is no limit on length except for recoil to the shooter. I have shot a Remington autoloader in a 3 1/2 inch shell and won't shoot another. I enjoy shooting a Beretta 10 gauge side by side and have shot rifles up to 470 Nitro including 416 Rigby and 375 H&H. I enjoyed shooting all of them but the 3 1/2 inch shotgun is not enjoyable for me to shoot. The 12 gauge 3 inch shotshell is my limit. Having said that I still find I am pretty darned effective with the 2 1/2 inch shell.

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Dennis V. Nix

One more thing; one of the above writers mentioned the restriction of shotshell length over 3 1/2 inches. To my knowledge anyone can use any length shotshell they choose or that the manufacturers will produce. There is no limit on length except for recoil to the shooter. I have shot a Remington autoloader in a 3 1/2 inch shell and won't shoot another. I enjoy shooting a Beretta 10 gauge side by side and have shot rifles up to 470 Nitro including 416 Rigby and 375 H&H. I enjoyed shooting all of them but the 3 1/2 inch shotgun is not enjoyable for me to shoot. The 12 gauge 3 inch shotshell is my limit. Having said that I still find I am pretty darned effective with the 2 1/2 inch shell.

When I worked for NH Fish & Game several years ago I recall a restriction on shotshell length was introduced to prevent even longer 10ga shells than 3.5". My recall is the proposal was adopted and codified as law in the CFR somewhere. Perhaps it was a proposal that did not become law but there was initiative to do it.

I am still looking for a federal restriction but there are some states using a shotshell length restriction of 3 1/2 inches:

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/kar/301/002/222.htm

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/...andAnimals.pdf

[Ray Masciarella]

The Lacy Act made them illegal for migratory birds only. Otherwise, each state can decide whether they can be used for hunting, and many states do. They can be used down here. I started a thread on this over a year ago (8/24/2010). There was a lot of discussion. Mostly pro use but some where opposed to any use. IMHO, they don't know what they are talking as my 12 ga 3 1/2" turkey gun puts 300 pellets in. 10" circle at 40 yards using Nitro Company's Mega weight blend. (75 pellets at 70 yrs). I doubt an old 8 ga with a paper wad would out do it.

[charlie cleveland]

ray what kind of choke do you use andwhat size shot and almost forgot what brand of gun... ive got to try my old eight gauge against your guns shooting ability but i think your turkey gun will be the winner...you did say 70 yards 10 inch circle and 100 pellets in the 10 inch circle...charlie