DROP IN VALUE FOR OPENED CHOKES

[C.O.B.]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

If I had a nice Parker 20 or 28 gauge with 26" barrels and F/F chokes that was pretty useless to me for grouse and woodcock in tight cover and spreader loads only gave me the equivalent of Mod/Mod at best, and I chose to open the chokes to Skeet/Skeet or Skeet/LtMod would I be devaluing the gun or making it more of my value for my purposes? Granted, a letter would show F/F but it isn't a 90% gun in anyone's definition anyway.

To a purist it would probably devalue the gun but to the majority of people that would use the gun it would probably be considered beneficial. It would definitely make the gun more useable for you and your applications for it and it's YOUR gun so enjoy it the way you want it.

[J. A. EARLY]

Originally Posted by Garry L Gordon

And the funny thing is that if we had a factory record that the gun had been returned to have the chokes opened in the past, we would value the gun highly. There's great irony in collecting. Things evolve. We've all seen the rise in value of Damascus barrels, and now I see restored/reconditioned guns by certain gunsmiths are being valued well. The guns are gems, and we value what they hold for us as our link to the past.

I believe the reason we would value it much more if the gun had been returned to Parker to have the chokes opened is that we would know it was done correctly, just as it would have if it left the factory. We can't be sure of all of the thousands of guns that were opened by other gunsmiths, many not as careful as Parker would have been with their very long choking system that we see in their barrels. The gun I was looking at, having been honed from .662 to .676 in 16 gauge was worrisome to me. Obviously not done by Parker. The .007 removed from the barrels only left .020 m.w.t. on the right barrel/cylinder side, which by the way is the choke with which it left the Parker factory.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Jerry Harlow

Obviously not done by Parker. The .007 removed from the barrels only left .020 m.w.t. on the right barrel/cylinder side, which by the way is the choke with which it left the Parker factory.

I don't disagree with any of this sentiment, it's just that I still think that if you sent your tightly choked Parker to a reputable choke expert today (you pick, Briley? whoever), and documented it well, it would not be as valued by as many as it would (as you well note, Jerry) if it had been done in the past (and documented) by Parker. Let's face it, it's significantly the mystic of Parker that we care about...and/or the nostalgia for a time past...or whatever you believe motivates people to collect and value things. The idea that a documented change of originality by a reputable source in the past makes a gun functionally different from one done just as well by a reputable source is interesting so say the least.

A great thread!

[Autumn Daze]

Garry, One of the true values of The Parker Gun is the wonderful ogee choke found in factory original guns. I just develop loads that shoot well in my Parkers rather than opening those great chokes up. Besides shooting a full choked gun just makes you a better shot.

[C.O.B.]

I agree completely Dave but just what are ogee chokes?

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Dave Suponski

Garry, One of the true values of The Parker Gun is the wonderful ogee choke found in factory original guns. I just develop loads that shoot well in my Parkers rather than opening those great chokes up. Besides shooting a full choked gun just makes you a better shot.

I'm absolutely not advocating opening the chokes in an original Parker (but if someone owns the gun, who am I to say?), or disputing the very effective chokes that Parker bored for loads of the day. My comments are more about how we regard the guns and our concept of originality. IF Parker Bros. were still in business today, I wonder if their guns would be choked as tightly as they were "back then?" I think part of the interest in collecting and shooting these great guns is developing loads to make them shoot their best. Dave, your expertise in creating loads is a testament to your regard for the guns.

Post some of your best loads for tightly choked (original) Parkers -- especially in 16 gauge -- and I'll give them a try. I must tell you, though, I seriously doubt that it will make ME a better shot...but it's worth a try. My bird dogs will thank you if it works.;-)

[Autumn Daze]

Rich, If I can find Austins profile graph of Parker chokes I will post it here.

Garry, Try this one for your tight choked 16 gauge. Remington game load hull, 16.5 grains SR 7625 (soon to change to Unique), Winchester 209 primer,Claybuster CBO16 gauge wad(blue) 1oz. shot and a Polywad 20 gauge spreader insert on top of the shot. Yes I did say 20 spreader insert. Hope this is of some help. The thing I discovered about making speaders is that speed is very important. If they are too fast the pattern will be terrible.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Dave Suponski

Garry, Try this one for your tight choked 16 gauge. Remington game load hull, 16.5 grains SR 7625 (soon to change to Unique), Winchester 209 primer,Claybuster CBO16 gauge wad(blue) 1oz. shot and a Polywad 20 gauge spreader insert on top of the shot. Yes I did say 20 spreader insert. Hope this is of some help. The thing I discovered about making speaders is that speed is very important. If they are too fast the pattern will be terrible.

Thanks so much! I think I have all of the components but the wads, so I'll get some. Any idea what the pressure range for this load is? Would it be suitable for a Damascus-barreled Parker?

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Rich Anderson

I agree completely Dave but just what are ogee chokes?

Rich, I have a LOT of Austin's charts and graphs that he plotted on chambers, cone tapers, bore measurements, and chokes - which Austin determined to be 'ogee' in shape.

"A double curve with the shape of an elongated S."

"Shaped somewhat like an S, consisting of two arcs that curve in opposite senses, so that the ends are parallel. It is a kind of sigmoid curve."

An 'ogee' choke profile is unlike the chokes cut by most other shotgun makers in that theirs is a 'cone' with a definite shoulder at the end of a straight walled tube and without the terminal 1/4" - 3/8" parallel walled section at the very muzzle that Parker chokes usually had.

Is that clear?.....I tried to be.






.

[Autumn Daze]

Here ya go Rich,