Parker Wins Challenge

[6pt-Sika]

Originally Posted by Mike Franzen

Craig you should create an event, decide the rules, schedule a time and place and put out the invites. It would be easy to do at either Mike’s place or Ernie’s. Who knows, you might come up with something really popular. That’s what William Harden Foster did.

I’ve shot Foster’s game for well over FORTY years . I’ve no desire to get involved in creating etc . I’m more about arriving , pay , shoot and if I do well enough shoot off etc . The concept of competition is plain and simple as is the concept of for fun or pleasure . While both are fine etc I don’t exactly agree with them trying to be intertwined in a shall we say a main event . We have two separate Vintagers groups in the state of Virginia sort of putting on shoots , I was going to them semi regularly. However one group doesn’t care to keep score and of course when I shot with them I kept track of my own score , but I never did care for that it’s kinda nice to know where you stacked up among the competition on that day . Guess I shot to much skeet and trap in my quite younger days , so the competitive instinct in me hasn’t been lost over time .

[Bill Murphy]

How about a "claiming" shoot? We all shoot 50 birds, with guns that can be "claimed" by any other shooter for maybe $250 in order for the score shot with that gun to be considered as part of the winning scores. After all the high scoring shooters have their guns claimed for $250, and they refuse to give them up, their scores are disallowed and other lower scores take the win. Maybe some of the high scores will agree to give up their guns for $250, but probably very few. When the remaining ten scores from each team are tabulated, they can keep their guns and their scores. It works in horse racing and car racing, why not shotgun competition? The most interesting part of such an event is the auction for all forfeited shotguns at the end of the shoot. Imagine paying $650 for a gun that you sold for $250 just a few hours earlier.

[Mike of the Mountain]

Bill, who gets the $250? The shooter? Asking for a friend.

[Double Lab]

I find the comments on the new selection process of the challenge teams somewhat disingenuous and misguided. I find it frustrating that some of the posters who criticized the process were not at the VGC and have not participated in any challenge event that I can remember.

I'm the person who initiated this new selection process and I will admit it's not perfect but a work in process. I am open for suggestions but keep in mind my goal is to include the average shooter who would never qualify on score alone but just his or her desire to make "the team" and get the hat would make for a memorable weekend.

Let's start with our name. PGCA. Parker Gun COLLECTORS Assn. Not Shooters Assn. Most of us are not collectors in the true sense of the word but we enjoy shooting and hunting with Parkers. There are only a handful of serious, master class shooters who shoot Parkers and they have tended to dominate the challenge events for years. I don't want to deny them that pleasure. This is only an attempt to level the playing field so to speak for the average member who enjoys shooting his favorite Parker but doesn't shoot thousands of registered targets a year.

We need to step back and realize that the challenge event is not associated with the NSSA and the original SxS events were just gathering of like minded individuals who want to shoot their Parkers, Foxes, Lefevers, etc., and have some friendly competition. They were meant for original guns, not tricked out race guns. I witnessed this past weekend a SxS which I could not identify with extended choke tubes. Really?? I've seen shooters change chokes while on the course. But I digress.

So the two factors in this equation are the handful of the top shooters, those who post scores in the forties, and the average shooter with scores that run the gamut from the teens to the thirties.

This new process of team selection will still offer the top guns that competitive arena. They will just have to bring their A game to make those top two spots on the team. This leaves three spots left for the average Parker shooter.

I don't why we can't work together to change the process to be more equitable to the average dues paying member. In the last two challenge events we have had a youth shooter and a female shooter who would have never made it under the old system. I also know of a shooter this past weekend who didn't want to be on the team but accepted the hat and shot lights out, way above his pay grade.

People don't like change. All I'm asking is for is to give this new process a chance because I'm determined to make it an event for the members who are just casual shooters to have a chance to represent their favorite manufacturer, be it Fox, Parker, Lefever, in the various challenge events. Come on, who doesn't get a kick out of having their picture posted under the challenge results showing them on the team?

[DoubleD]

Hello all! I have been reading these comments upon my return home and would like to chime in my two cent opinion if I may. Many don't know me in this group but I happen to be one of the "lucky" average joe shooters to have been allowed to shoot in this event under the new challenge format. I must say first off I love attending these events, meeting new people with my same interests, and seeing some of the most beautiful landscape this country has to offer. I was excited to get onto the team but once I called PULL from my first station I wondered what have I gotten myself into. I knew no one on my team personally but I had seen there names several times over the years on the posted scores at the Southern spring and fall events. Thank goodness my shooting was good enough to hang on to allow Parker another win. I like most people love a competition and can stand a good ribbing or shaming, from friends that is. If we had lost I don't know if I could ever go near the Parker tent again believing that my shooting was the cause of it and believe me I was nervous and sweating enough it could have happened. A double-edged sword no doubt. Thank goodness I own a Fox too. Now I have a hat, I hope it isn't a reminder to some of the challenge " that really wasn't legit " but for me it was fun and I met some new friends and I have my story to tell. If the rules change again tomorrow I hope to still be around trying to qualify and chase those high scores. Anything to bring others to these events is a win to us all. Thanks.

[Bob Brown]

If I could make a sugestion? I probably won't have the opportunity to make it to a Parker/Fox or Parker/Smith match, but I would like to. The time, distance, border issues, and cost would be substantial and if I went that far it would be nice to be involved in the outcome. The top 5 verses top 5 format isn't really a test of the make of the shotgun, its a test of the shooters. Let's face it, they could probably trade guns and still smoke the rest of the field with the competitor's brand. Individual competition is great, and the classes broken down by hammer gun, gauge, and even field gun weight could supply that. Have an unlimited class for the ultra competitve people to see where they rank and determine the top shooters.
As with other makers the total team of Parker shooters at these events are made up of all classes of skill levels. Young, old, male, female, in their prime, past their prime, never had a prime. They're a team because of their appreciation of their favorite brand of shotgun. Why not let everyone's score count for for the big prize, the Parker/Fox Challenge? Have the average score for all shooters of each brand determine the winner of that title. As long as it is kept good natured and fun that should build a team atmosphere with fellow team members encouraging each other to shoot well. The top shooters will still be the top shooters. The large number of shooters would prevent even a very bad shot from from hurting the average too much. Besides, both teams will have their strong and weak shooters. I think that it would also be a much truer measure of the top shotgun maker and everyone would feel they contributed.

[Reggie B]

Daryl I applaud your efforts to get more people involved in these shoots and in turn maybe getting more people interested in classic American double guns.

[Mike of the Mountain]

Had a nice discussion with Daryl on Sunday about the whole FPC and FLC. We agreed on most things and disagreed on very few. As the Polish proverb says, “Not my circus, not my monkeys”!! Whatever the format is most of us will still shoot to qualify and if fortunate enough to reach the shoot-off, we’ll shoot with the same focus and competitive fire as always! Daryl, always remember, broken glass and razor blades.

[Double Lab]

At this point, the broken glass seems the more humane side.

Once again the super sporting course yesterday was great! If any members can get the chance to shoot it at Rock Mountain, don't pass it up. Sometimes it ain't about the score but the fun of a new venue.

[Mike Franzen]

To be honest, one complaint I haven’t heard, “I never get to qualify because of the rules”. I have dreamed for years of making the Parker Team but so far I haven’t shot well enough. I don’t blame the event organizers, I realize there are better shooters than me and I need more practice. There are not many IMHO that want to put in the hours and rounds to be considered a competitive shooter. If someone is working towards that they realize right away it’s a highest score game. So they keep trying or they give up on becoming competitive. When we try to “Level the playing field” it’s usually because our team isn’t winning enough and there perceived unfair advantages. I say leave the challenges as they are - for the top guns. Spend time on devising shooting games anyone can enjoy. For example, in 2019 Ernie had some kind of flurry event you shot with a partner. John Davis and shot that together and had the best time. Ernie also had a game that was like shooting live birds where you had to break the target before it flew beyond the boundaries. Again, a lot of fun. We should be trying to attract more shooters, collectors and bystanders. Worrying about who wins these challenges is counterproductive. The vast majority of the different organizations members couldn’t care less when it comes right down to it. They go to these events because they want to have fun. If the whining and squabbling become the main thing it will soon die and fade away. Just look what happened to the Vintagers.