Parker GH 16 Damascus-wall thickness

[Garhart Stephenson]

I find myself in need of expertise. Today the Parker GH 16 ga. arrived from Griffin and Howe. I assembled my wall thickness gauge and took a lot of readings, over and over. The gauge rods flex, so it takes good technique to get accurate readings, thus the desire to repeat. Wall thickness is up to .006" below the recommended minimums I was able to find. I believe that those figures were for 10-12 ga. guns, but have no separate list for 16 ga. In theory, the smaller the bore, the greater proportion of wall to bore/ surface area is, but how much difference it makes I am unqualified to put into reliable numbers.

Overall the gun is in very good condition, even if the barrels appear trimmed at 27 7/8". Listed as I/C & Mod, but choke measurements show Cyl. & Mod. Top lever is far right of center and condition of the gun indicates minimal use. Bores are .663-.664, shiny with just a hint of frosting. Honed? More likely just polished at some time. Barrels may have been refinished long ago, edges are not rounded off anywhere but there are two vent holes on the bottom rib, one on each side of the forearm lug. That tells me someone was worried about draining chemicals and etchant during a refinish.

The area of concern is along the bottom joining rib. Chamber and forcing cone measurements are pretty uniform around the circumference. It's further down that things get eccentric. Looking at the muzzle end, it appears that the tubes have always been that way since the eccentricity continues between the barrels and not just along the rib. Measurements, minimums:

Chamber/forcing cone jct.: R .095"/ L .087"
End of forcing cones: R .107"/ .106"
9" from breech: R .039"/ L .042"
12" from breech: R .026"/ L .033"
9" from muzzle" R .019"/ L .023"

As I take measurements further around the circumference from the bottom rib, thickness increases noticeably, by .010" or greater. I'm curious what Drew (sent you an e-mail) and others with more experience evaluating situations like this think. Useable or lost cause? My intent is hunting with mild loads.
http://
http://
http://

[Dean Romig]

Hello Garhart. I bought my first Damascus barreled Parker (GHE) 16 gauge on the 0-frame from Tony Galazan back in 2003 and soon sent the barrels to Oscar Gaddy for evaluation. Serial number is 79355 and the barrels were originally 28” but as advertised, they had been cut to 26”. The gun had warts but the barrels appeared to be un-messed with.
I’m not making any recommendations here but when I got Oscar’s letter back with the barrels I bought a flat of RST 2 1/2” “Lite” shells and never looked back.

Anyone today would tell me today that with wall thickness like mine has at the juncture of the chamber and the forcing cone that it shouldn’t be shot and just hang it on the wall but I have shot it a lot at both upland birds as well as Skeet.

I would not be overly concerned with that .019 thickness 9” from the muzzle and all the other measurements appear to be ok for low pressure loads. I’m no expert on barrels but I would enjoy shooting your gun.
That .026” at 12” from the breech is a bit thin maybe....

.

[Garhart Stephenson]

That's similar to what Drew has told me his e-mail. The chamber thickness listed in your letter really raised my eyebrows! I am sorting through low pressure loading data today to find if there are any 3/4 oz. and 7/8 oz. loads that I would actually hunt with. With such light loads and the choking of this gun, it will definitely be good in the woods, but quite limited on the prairies. It's not my only gun though and I can live with it being a blue and ruffed grouse special.

[Drew Hause]

Thanks for posting that Dean.
Unfortunately we can't inquire exactly where "junction of chamber & forcing cone" WT was measured.
If that is the "end of the chamber" (toward the muzzle; not breech) .068" is well below CIPs recommendations of .075" for a 20g with “Standard Steel” (Non-alloy AISI 1045) with tensile strength = 101,526-123,137 psi

Crolle damascus tensile strength averages about 55,000 psi or 1/2 that

Austin Hogan observed that factory small frame Parker 20g and 16g gun may have an end of the chamber WT < .090"

.068" is also well below any measurement documented here
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthr...096#post158096
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthr...?t=1565&page=4

It might be very interesting, and prudent, to repeat the "end of the chamber" WT measurements.

[Harold Pickens]

Garth, if you keep it, have several good 3/4 and 7/8 oz loads that I use in my GH16 o frame--also some 1 oz.

[Randy Roberts]

Just yesterday evening at the local gun club I measured an Imman Meffert Suhl 12 ga with undersized .714 bores of Krupp steel for the Member who acquired it. I measured it as upon examination the chambers appeared lengthened. The chambers measured 3.25" and at that juncture with the forcing cones the WT was .070 (L) and .072 (R). I offered my opinion which was one he did not cherish. Another club member opined that Krupp steel was of the finest in the world and that this gun was safe to shoot with any modern ammo but he should probably shy away from the "really big trap loads". To the Members credit he put the gun in the rack stating he did not want to see anyone get hurt. I applaud him for that. After some discussion he is going to have some conversation with Briley and possibly two gunsmiths as recommended to discuss options.

[Bruce Day]

Need to be .100 -.110” for a 12.

[Dean Romig]

Drew, I’ll bring the barrels to Ernie’s in early June. Hoping Jon Hosford will be there.





.

[Phil Yearout]

Is it just me, or the photo, or are the stock and forend two different colors? Numbers all match?

[Garth Gustafson]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;295272]Hello Garhart. I bought my first Damascus barreled Parker (GHE) 16 gauge on the 0-frame from Tony Galazan back in 2003 and soon sent the barrels to Oscar Gaddy for evaluation. Serial number is 79355 and the barrels were originally 28” but as advertised, they had been cut to 26”. The gun had warts but the barrels appeared to be un-messed with.
I’m not making any recommendations here but when I got Oscar’s letter back with the barrels I bought a flat of RST 2 1/2” “Lite” shells and never looked back.

Anyone today would tell me today that with wall thickness like mine has at the juncture of the chamber and the forcing cone that it shouldn’t be shot and just hang it on the wall but I have shot it a lot at both upland birds as well as Skeet.

I would not be overly concerned with that .019 thickness 9” from the muzzle and all the other measurements appear to be ok for low pressure loads. I’m no expert on barrels but I would enjoy shooting your gun.
That .026” at 12” from the breech is a bit thin maybe....

I’m sure there are quite a few 16ga 0 frames with Damascus barrels out there being shot with similar wall thickness. Case in point, my GH serial # 85947. Measurements were .078 and .067 taken at the juncture of the forcing cone and bore. The barrels were inspected and deemed safe to shoot with low pressure RST loads.