I have decided to post the letter I wrote to the Arizona Game and fish department that mirror the facts, and point that many of you also are expressing. I hope others will take an opportunity to challenge the 8 gauge laws in your state if they restrict the use of an 8 gauge.
Dear AZ Game and Fish Department,
I am submitting a petition asking to change the ruling that makes the use of a shotgun larger than a 10 gauge illegal for hunting in the state of Arizona. It is not my intention to have the Arizona Game and Fish department make any ruling as it applies to Migratory birds, as I realize this is not something that is within this departments jurisdiction.
I am respectfully requesting that the Arizona Game and fish department allow the use of 8 gauge shotguns in the legal harvesting of Big Game, upland birds, and predators.
I believe our AZ Game and Fish laws, and rulings are, and were written to provide protection to our natural resources and wildlife, and to best serve our citizens.
As with any law, or ruling they must be reviewed from time to time in order to make sure that they still represent the original intended purpose, and best serves our states hunters and fisherman.
If at which time the development of new technologies or as a state we become more educated with the facts. We are obligated to ourselves, and our future young sportsman to make changes that best serves the sportsman, as well as our wildlife.
The rulings to limit the use to 10 gauge shotguns or smaller, is one such law. I believe we should review as this law that restricts the use of 8 gauge shotguns. In turn allowing the sportsman in Arizona to be able to use these fine 8 gauge shotguns which are steeped in the rich history of our hunting fore fathers.
I hope I can share with you some of my passion for wanting to be able to hunt with an 8 gauge shotgun, as well share with you what I believe are the facts surrounding the performance and legitimate reasoning for allowing the use of the 8 gauge shotguns.
For as long as I can remember I have heard the stories of the 8 gauge, the preverbal “ Hand Held Cannon” The stories of the neighbor that pulled the triggers on grandpas old 8 gauge and how it knocked him to the ground. The stories of how in the “Olden Days”, whole flocks of ducks were brought down with a single shot. These stories may sound familiar. I would now like to try to separate out the facts from fiction and present you with what I believe will better describe the performance of the 8 gauge and why we should allow the use of the 8 gauge for harvesting game. I would like to first provide some information that might help explain how a gauge is measured and the difference between gauges.
The caliber of shotguns is measured in terms of gauge (U.S.) or bore (U.K.). The gauge number is determined by the number of solid spheres of a diameter equal to the inside diameter of the barrel that could be made from a pound of lead. So a 10 gauge shotgun nominally should have an inside diameter equal to that of a sphere made from one-tenth of a pound of lead. By far the most common gauges are 12 (0.729 in, 18.5 mm diameter) and 20 (0.614 in, 15.6 mm).
So while a 10 gauge would have 10 spheres to the pound an 8 gauge would have 8. Another way to look at this is the 12 gauge has a bore diameter of 0.729, a 10 gauge has a bore diameter of 0.775 and the 8 gauge has a bore diameter of 0.835. For comparison a Quarter is .065 thick when measured on its side. There is a mere 60 thousands .060 of an inch difference between a 10 and an 8 gauge.
Approximately 100 years ago when market hunting was legal, hunters used the best guns they could get there hands on. In almost all cases this was not done with a single barrel, or double barrel 8 gauge. Why? Because this was not the most effective firearm for the harvesting the largest amount of waterfowl, with the one and only shot that might be had that day, (or night). What was effective, was the use of Punt guns, mounted to the bow of a boat. The market hunter used a 2, 4, or larger gauge weapon loaded with a pound or more of shot. The boat was positioned and then discharged in to a flock of rafting waterfowl, with the hopes of taking dozens of ducks or geese for market.
Not surprising our country experienced dwindling game numbers due in large part to the lack of proper protection and resulting over harvest of wildlife in the late 1800 and early 1900’s. Our countries Sportsman, as well as our state and Federal Fish and wildlife departments enacted laws to provide protection to a country that was in dire need of protecting its wildlife. Thus assuring that our future generations inherited sustainable and renewable populations of wildlife.
History has clearly proven that our forefathers did the right things, to best address the unlimited harvest of game.
It is clear that at the time, some limits, and governance needed to be set in order to best address the over harvesting of Game. Many laws were enacted one of which was the Act of July 3, 1918; The Migratory Bird Treaty Act: Affords protection from commercial exploitation to both migratory waterfowl and other species of birds. This act expanded the duties of the "Federal Game Warden" whose existence began in 1900.
With the enactment of this Act there was a belief that there needed to be a restriction on the firearms that should be allowed in the harvesting of waterfowl. After all, if you suddenly want to change the behaviors of many of the hunters, who had grown accustomed to taking unlimited numbers of waterfowl, limitations needed to be set. During this time more then 100,000 hunters owned 10 and 12 gauge shotguns, yet there were only a limited number of 8 gauges ever produced by the American gun manufactures, such as L C Smith and Parker Bros. In fact there was only about 600 8 gauges ever produced by the American shotgun companies.
With this in mind and wanting to restrict the use of unlimited large bore shotguns shooting vast quantities of shot the 8 gauge was the starting point. Why, because the 8 gauge was not popular and not as widely used as the 10 gauge for example.
There are many that are more knowledgeable than I, that have studied the records and believe that the production, and use of the readably available 12 gauge auto loader, with a capacity of 6 to 8 shells did more to more impact the waterfowl population than the Punt guns or 8 gauges ever did.
Currently as it stands today Arizona as well as the other states along with the Federal Fish and Wildlife allow the harvesting of game and waterfowl with the 10 and 12 gauge shotguns. These guns, although limited to a maximum of 3 shells in the magazine while hunting migratory birds and waterfowl are well made modern and effective weapons in which the performance over shadows the yesteryears performance of the vintage 8. These modern 10 and 12 gauge auto’s not only have the ability to be quickly loaded, but are produced in 3 ˝ “ Magnums which carry payloads equal to greater then the vintage 8 gauge,
These guns are loaded with Modern smokeless Nitro powders fired in modern barrels that produce velocities that far exceed that of the 8 gauge by a wide margin. This is not to say these guns are bad, they are effective in there design to harvest game effectively, and are a pleasure to hunt with, and are in a similar performance category as our vintage 8 gauges.
Those of use that own and enjoy shooting our 8 gauges not only enjoy the rich heritage behind these fine guns, but must hand load the ammunition taking great care to protect these guns from abuse. Abuse that would be experienced, if we pushed the limits on these fine guns in which many cases carry fine Damascus barrels.
I am one of those lucky enough to have found a fine W C Scott and Son 8 gauge produced in 1884. This gun hung on the wall of a local gun shop for many years, possible having been shot the last time in 1918. I fell immediately for the fine craftsmanship, and the quality of this shotgun. Clearly this was once a prize possession of one of our hunting forefathers. This gun although shooting very corrosive primers and powder clearly had been taken care of. The owner having taken great pride in assuring the Damascus barrels were cleaned and preserved for a future hunter such as myself.
Conclusion, I believe it is a fact that the modern 10 and 12 gauge shotguns being produced today out perform the vintage 8 gauges.
We now have game laws that protect of wildlife and set game limits. These limits clearly call out the requirement for the proper licenses and stamps. They also clearly define seasons, shooting hours, and the daily and possession limits down to not only the bag limit, but also the maximum number of each species a hunter can take.
Understanding this, our next concern should be with the ethical manner in which we harvest game while using the most effective weapons.
An example of using the most effective weapon is demonstrated in the ruling where as the Arizona Game and fish does not limit the maximum caliber of a center fire rifle a hunter can use on big game in AZ, ( The turkey being the exception), yet it does limit the minimum. This makes sense as we want to use a weapon that will effectively harvest a big game animal while limiting the unnecessary wounding of game. Using this same thought process it only makes sense that we allow the use of the 8 gauge for those hunters that cherish the idea of harvesting for example a spring turkey with their vintage firearm.
I realize the changing of this law may only have a small impact of those of us that wish to hunt with our 8 gauges in Arizona without traveling to those states that allow its use, but it is an important change. It is important I believe because it also sends the signal that we have representatives that believe rules and laws should be reviewed regularly to assure they make sense for the management of our wildlife future.
I want to express my sincere appreciation with the fast response from the Arizona Game and Fish department, when I first enquired about the process of changing current rulings. I had a response on the day I made the inquiry. Thank you for this.
I realize this letter and Petition is just the start of the process. I am sure this will take time before a ruling can be made. I have further attached some copies of information on the 8 gauge as well as the 10 gauge. In the meantime, I am willing to help support my Petition for change by supplying additional information, as might be required and would be willing to meet with the Game and Fish Department. If it would be beneficial, I would be willing to bring in my 8 gauge for inspection, or offer to meet at one of the Shooting ranges when the Game and Fish would be represented. This would allow the inspection and demonstration of my 8 gauge while allowing anyone wanting to experience the opportunity to shoot one of these fine vintage shotguns.
Sincerely,
Phil Carr
8502 E Calle Bolivar
Tucson, Az 85715
520-488-6085
couse3pt@cox.net
08-26-2010, 10:18 PM
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