Sould it be illegal to hunt with 8 gauge?

[Phil C]

I would encourage anyone that lives in a state that outlaws hunting with an 8 gauge, and would like to hunt with one to go find out how to change the law.
I did this last year and went before the Arizona Game Commission on October 9 2009. I found everyone at the Game and Fish department to helpful and encouraging. I was able to actually have my W C Scott & Son as well as my 10 gauge DH Parker brought into the Commission meeting by two Game and fish Department employees. I was able to present my case, as to why we should be able to use an 8 gauge for hunting, and why it has made no since to outlaw the use for the legal harvest of game. I was please at the end to hear the decision. That the Game Commission voted unanimously to allow the hunting of Game in AZ with an 8 gauge. Unfortunately the ruling is in limbo awaiting the Governor’s Regulatory Review Council. They need to place their stamp of approval on the change. We currently have a moratorium on all rule making in AZ. Once this moratorium is lifted the rule will be submitted and should be approved. This of course has no change to Federal laws. That said, one step at a time. If all 50 states approved the 8 gauge use, this might have an impact on the ability to change the Federal law.
I would be happy to send anyone the written argument I used before the commission if you let me know. It is several pages and I do not want to post it here unless I received prior approval.

[Milton Starr]

what is also important is for all of us and more people is to email someone like remington,mossberg,browing or ...benelli-stoeger nad ask for them to make either a 10 or 8 ga. i think if you could push the 10 ga on them then after a while we would see some 8 ga/ I shoot a 10ga because 12 ga shells feel wierd in the palm of my hand . i think the govement would say why make it legal when no company even produces a 8g a and as of now there are only 4 models of 10 ga in procution compared to hundreds of models of 12 ga

[VH20]

Originally Posted by Milton Starr

could get rocky mountain to headstamp 8 ga hulls with 10 ga . since most people havnt seen a 10 ga even modern they (game warden) we say okay your free . it's no worse than people using a 12 ga and taking 3-5 shots to kill a bird

I've been watching to see if someone would post this idea. Let's just say that I think it HAS been done before, but I'm not calling anyone out! A Parker doesn't say "8 gauge" anywhere on it, either.

Jim

[Ray Masciarella]

I surprised to here that 8 ga can be used in some states. That's great. I do a lot out of state turkey hunting and every place I have beed has a max of 10 ga and min of 20 ga.

I'm inertested in knowing more about how repeaters with 10 shots made such a difference. When I use my Benelli, the ducks are usually out of range by the thrid shot. I can't imagaine getting off 10 shots!!

Based on what I've read the problem with 8 ga and up was this: Market hunters would use them with shooting sticks as they were heavy. They would wait for waterfowl to land and flock up on the water. When there was a good bunch in front of him, he'd blast them with both barrels killing many with two shots. That would seem to be an efftective killing method cause you could get two shots off pretty quick. Would seem more effective then a repeater which allowed three shots.

I don't know anything about the choke sizes. What chokes did 8 ga's tend to have?

[VH20]

Originally Posted by Ray Masciarella

I'm inertested in knowing more about how repeaters with 10 shots made such a difference. When I use my Benelli, the ducks are usually out of range by the thrid shot. I can't imagaine getting off 10 shots!!

It might have something to do with a more "target-rich environment" that existed in those days as compared to now. I know an old gentleman who was a skeet champion in his day. I never hunted with him, but back in the days "when quail were plentiful," I have several friends who attest that he could get off seven shots on a covey rise from his much-favored Model 12, and rarely miss. It would be interesting to have seen once, but more than that would start to seem unpleasant to watch.

Jim

[Bill Murphy]

Jim, yes, it has been done. In fact, as we speak, there is a company in Pakistan I think it is, that is making a run of eight gauge brass empties with ten gauge headstamps. They are not being made for me, however. If I could find a guide who could cause those Delaware snows to covey up in range, I would spend some days with my A-5 with nine shot Parsons magazine. I think that would be more fun than the eight gauge.

[Milton Starr]

From what i seen alot of 8 gauges had or have modified chokes which is odd since most guns back then had full choke .
i bet you could use a hevi shot turkey load out of a 10 ga with improved cylinder choke with a great spread .

[TARNATION !!!]

Been on the road for a couple weeks and enjoying reading the many posts missed during that time. The Federal side of this question is the Migratory Birds Convention of 1916 which was signed by the United States and Britain (on behalf of Canada, when we were barely past being a colony).

From my understanding, a state could legalize the use of an 8 gauge for hunting species OTHER THAN MIGRATORY BIRDS. Both the US and Canada created legislation taking into account the Convention. In Canada, it is known as the Migratory Birds Convention Act. I think it is the same name in the US but others can verify that. Here is the applicable citation from the Act in Canada:

Migratory Birds Regulations
Regulations Respecting the Protection of Migratory Birds
C.R.C., c. 1035
MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT, 1994

REGULATIONS RESPECTING THE PROTECTION OF MIGRATORY BIRDS

HUNTING METHODS AND EQUIPMENT

15. (1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) and section 23.1, no person shall hunt a migratory bird

(a) except with a long bow and arrow or with a shotgun not larger than number 10 gauge;

Of course there are many further regulations but this is where 8 gauge and larger bores are disallowed for migratory birds.

While not impossible to change an Act linked to an international convention, it is difficult. You will note that, in Canada, the Act was amended in 1994. This was to recognize aboriginal and other subsistence hunters' needs.

Cheers,
Jack

[Milton Starr]

gauge is measure by the amount of lead in the bore or barrle right ? If not using lead shot doesnt that make it a different gauge ?on a techincality

[Ed Blake]

The 8-gauge was low-hanging fruit for the Congresspersons seeking to find a reason why waterfowl populations were becoming endangered. Banning them was easy. I would recommend Nash Buckingham's "Are We Shooting 8-Gauge Guns" and a couple recent Sherman Bell contributions to the DGJ. You can't use an 8 but you can use a .410 - go figure. NB's point was with three-shot auotmatics and pumps you had as much firepower as you'd have with an 8 double. What's the diff? I say you 8-gauge shooters get yourselves some of Mr. Murphy's 8/10 headstamped shells and have at it at a private, out-of-the way pond. Use lead too.