Titanic Steel

[Bruce Day]

I deleted my posts. The fellow asked about hunting loads, not clays loads, so I responded about hunting loads that I use and that I know that others use who are major collectors of Parkers. I have a 10ga Parker, but I prefer to carry the 16 for long walks after pheasant , as I am not fond of carrying an 8 lb gun, and I used the 16 for many years on ducks.

I am certainly no expert. I just like to hunt late season pheasant and a person should never do what I do.

[J.B. Books]

Todays light loads in terms of payload and velocity were hunting loads prior to the 1920's. From what I can tell they must have worked pretty good back then.

[Autumn Daze]

Geez Bruce if you post a reply that may spark some honest discussion why not just leave it there instead of deleting it. After all this is a DISCUSSION FORUM. I am sure that folks that read this stuff can make their own decisions and separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Bill Murphy]

Did Bruce do that again? That is most inconsiderate. As I recall, we once banned a poster for disruptive behavior that included many deletions of posts. That poster was also disrespectful to other posters!!

[Bruce Day]

We have been through this appropriate load business many times and I see no possible resolution to it. When a person asks what can he shoot I somehow have the idea that he should be shown the Parker recommendations about what his gun was patterned for, and the Parker load tables and the Parker service and proof load tables. That can be combined with a subjective recommendation about using low pressure loads for clays, but the objective statement is what Parker recommended and individual's subjective views may be the low presure recommendations. I personally reload low pressure for clays and usually shoot factory loads for hunting. On the other side are those who always say to shoot low pressure without mentioning what Parker recommended. I do not see the situation as resolvable, as I have posted photo after photo of Parker pattern tags, load tables, catalog tables, etc, all to no avail when a person asks what he can shoot and the answer is we all shoot low pressure loads.

[Opening Day]

Bruce what people are saying, is when a "newbe" asks for advice go slow, it is much safer to recommend low presure loads (as you have not seen his gun) then to go off and tell him he is fine shooting long range max loads. You don't know the condition of the stock (and neither does he) so just because Parker said you could shoot X load through the gun the gun is now at least 70 years old and probably much more and the stock may or may not be able to take that kind of pressure. I know you have a lot of experience with these guns you can look at a stock and know right away what you can shoot through it but the guy asking the question has no idea so that's why everyone recommends low pressure loads to a newbe and after that you can treat your guns anyway you want but for the first time user it's better to be safe the sorry. Eric

[Bruce Day]

Then why don't why guys give such a new person the full explanation? Give him the load charts, the TPS service and proof tables, the catalog recommended loads. He says he has a 1930's D; I assume 12ga and you know as well as I do that those were almost always 1 1/2 frame, maybe a 2, with a 1 1/4oz at 3 1/4 dre per Parker hang tags, which is still under the service limits. That is a stout load and one can buy such shells from all the modern manufacturers.

Why must people presume that the stock is infirm, or that the barrels are thin? Why don't we just ask him? One of our new guys that was with me the other day showed me his new old GHE 12ga from the late 1920's. That gun will handle these reasonable modern loads. 1 1/2 frame, good barrels, great wood, even thicker than usual in the wrist. Why don't we give these guys the full story instead of maybe presuming that they are not capable of understanding Parker loads or recognizing that they have a cracked wrist or something else that would limit the gun?

Maybe we do a FAQ that carries the full explanation, with a subjective recommendation to use or reload for low pressure when a person doesn't need to use the full capabilities of the gun, but we have never been able to achieve any consensus on that.

To me its like a person saying he has has a nice old Corvette and people writing in and saying he shouldn't drive it over 60 mph.

[Autumn Daze]

OK, So I but a nice old Corvette...It looks pretty good so I stick the key in it and promptly take it up to 120 MPH...Seems silly to me. I think I would drive it for a while and see how it handles and such. Same thing with a new to me Parker.I understand that for the target games we don't really need to push the envelope on loads but the new technology developed by RST,Poly-Wad etc.has proven to me that I don,t need to use promo shells in my guns. I also understand that for long flushing Pheasant's and water foul you need loads that can reach out and touch them but I still don,t think that means 10,000 PSI shells. Bob Fabian, Scott and Pete Lesters home brewed stuff has proven that time and again.

[Bruce Day]

That's an interesting subjective view, but my guess is that a Parker gun owner might be capable of receiving and understanding what Parker said, listening to subjective views of others, and judging for himself. Maybe I've way overestimated the intelligence of a Parker owner but to me its not rocket science.

I guess I don't like the low pressure police approach and believe that a new Parker shooter is best served by a full explanation in which objective Parker statements are separated from various individuals' subjective recommendations. I generally shoot lower recoil loads because I see no reason to pound the gun or my shoulder, but there are times when I feel a need to use the full capabilities of the gun, and I will tell anybody that a Parker is very capable and I am not afraid of running full loads through my gun when I have hard to kill far out birds.

[Autumn Daze]

It has nothing to do with intelligence. It has to do with information and with shotshell technology changing ie: better patterning loads at a lower PSI why beat yourself and the gun up? I just don,t understand. Parker Brothers load data is very interesting from a historical stand point but there are too many unknowns for me to take it as gospel.I'll tell ya what you shoot what you want and so will I. But when the newcomer asks about recommended loads I will continue to explain that lesser is sometimes better.