Provenance

[Autumn Daze]

Jared,That is great Fox! Congratulations...

[Austin W Hogan]

Returning to the beginning of this thread; Parker Pages cover has a professional photo of Ernest Hemingway holding a Parker. This is part of the series we established the current cover layout for, but carried the shooter's name for the first time.
I recieved an e mail message inquiring if PGCA was using this photo to establish a "Hemingway Parker". I replied that this cover layout was established to fit cabinet and other professional photo prints of the Parker era. The Parker and the ducks for that matter, may have been the photographer's props, as in the prior covers.

What kind of provenance provides acceptable connection of an individual gun to an individual owner? Is the use of an individual gun by a distinguished person at an event acceptable provenance?

Best, Austin

[Big D]

Ultimately, provenance is whatever data will induce a given individual to pay a premium for a given gun. What may induce you to spend big bucks may not do the job for me.

[Dean Romig]

I think 'provenance' in and of itself is whatever empirical evidence will link a specific Parker (in this case) to a person, event, location, or factory specification. I may have left something out... ?

[Captain Bob]

Austin,

With this thread you are soliciting comments for PP on the issue of provenance, here are a couple:

What kind of provenance provides acceptable connection of an individual gun to an individual owner? Is the use of an individual gun by a distinguished person at an event acceptable provenance?

It seems to me that the use of photographic evidence to establish primary provenance of “ownership” of an object by a distinguished person must be viewed very cautiously, especially in these days of digital image manipulation. A photograph of a person simply holding an object does not have the weight of an original bill of sale. A photograph of Hemingway game fishing in an anonymous power boat does not prove any other connection with the boat other than that he was once photographed in that boat. A original serial numbered bill of sale or a specific listing in an estate document certainly establishes ownership provenance to an object; multiple and various photographs of the individual using the object or reference to the object in public documents support the provenance of the importance of the object to the individual and hence might elevate the potential “value” of the object to a potential buyer. Then over time the strength of the “provenance of the provenance” of an object increases or decreases each time the object is subjected to public examination and the “accepted” strength of this will generally be reflected in the price realized. In the case of “Bo-Whoop” this is its first submission to a public test and beyond the priced realized next week we will not really know how its provenance stands up until it has been tested a couple times again.

I received an e mail message inquiring if PGCA was using this photo to establish a "Hemingway Parker". I replied that this cover layout was established to fit cabinet and other professional photo prints of the Parker era. The Parker and the ducks for that matter, may have been the photographer's props, as in the prior covers.

You do not provide the original text of this message; but I find it interesting and a little annoying that someone seemingly by the nature of their question to you has jumped to the suspicion that the presentation of a previously not well know charming “local” photograph of Hemingway festooned in dead ducks and holding a just barely recognizable Parker is somehow an effort to provide, establish or strengthen the provenance of a particular Parker gun. PP’s presentation of this photograph was simply a delightful and enjoyable surprise. Yet I realize that the question of the current market values of the Parkers we search out, acquire, have, study, shoot and care for as temporary custodians is ever present below the surface, but sometimes it really becomes intrusive, tedious and just a pain in the a$$. In the end, the only true test of value is the amount the next buyer hands us or one of our heirs.

[Austin W Hogan]

Thank you for the replies. I think we are beginning to get some meat together for an article.

Best, Austin

[MarketHunter]

I've got a lifter 10 gauge that used to belong to Austin Hogan, that's all the provenance I need. *wink*

Destry

[Autumn Daze]

I think Chuck H pretty much sums it up for me."My vague understanding of provenance is that continuity of documented possession and transfer is key for an item that cannot otherwise be irrefuteably validated"

In the case of "Burts Gun".... It is well documented in story and there is a solid line to Mr.Spiller plus the guns wear is consistant to the time line.

The Czars Gun provenance is foolproof.

Bo-Whoop I have been advised by several knowledgeable people that it the real deal but for the life of me I just can,t seem to get a warm and fuzzy feeling about this gun.And I really have nothing to base my uneasyness(Is that a word?) on.

[Bill Murphy]

There was very little chance of establishing the original ownership provenance of Parker shotguns until 1998 when the PGCA Research Committee copied the Parker Brothers order books. The Fox records have always, at least in my collecting lifetime, been available. However, the Fox records have very little information about individual purchasers of their guns compared to information available about Parkers. Proving or claiming that someone owned a gun or shot a gun isn't too important in increasing value when such information is compared with original factory order records. Bo Whoop is backed up with factory records establishing him as the original purchaser, but so are other Fox shotguns, and maybe a Parker or two. What are those guns worth compared to Bo Whoop?

[Dean Romig]

Okay, veering a bit - What author of several coveted books and dozens upon dozens of stories, steeped in the lore of his chosen sport, a few even singing the praises of his custom bored and choked Parker shotgun by pet name (with his own name stamped or engraved into it) can we think of that might even compare to Buckingham and "Bo-Whoop"?