Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums  

Go Back   Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums Non-Parker Specific & General Discussions General Discussions about Other Fine Doubles

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 01-21-2021, 03:31 AM   #11
Member
jeffery c
Forum Associate

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 342
Thanks: 183
Thanked 165 Times in 73 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Norman View Post
what a beautiful old shotgun,
It is, thanks! It's one of two guns I have that rate pretty much heart stopping in terms of condition, lines and beauty.
jefferyconnor is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-23-2021, 10:27 PM   #12
Member
Chris Robenalt
PGCA Member
 
Chris Robenalt's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 603
Thanks: 1,628
Thanked 1,060 Times in 283 Posts

Default

Jeff, is that a 16?
Chris Robenalt is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-24-2021, 12:09 AM   #13
Member
Researcher
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Dave Noreen's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,597
Thanks: 1,617
Thanked 7,773 Times in 2,353 Posts

Default

While the Remington Hammerless Doubles in A- to EEO-Grade were offered in 10-, 12- and 16-gauge, the FE-Grade Trap Gun was only catalogued in 12-gauge with 30-inch Remington Steel barrels from its introduction in the 1905-06 Remington Arms Co. catalog through the last appearance of the doubles in the 1909 Remington Arms Co. catalog. Careful reading of the catalog text indicates also 32-inch barrels but I've yet to record an FE with 32-inch barrels.
Dave Noreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-24-2021, 03:01 PM   #14
Member
charlie cleveland
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,986
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7,787 Times in 3,967 Posts

Default

I only have 2 Remington doubles one is a a grade 10 ga with steel barrels and 30 inch barrels and a 1894 12 ga with ordance seel barrels and 26 inch barrels....both guns are ejector guns...the 12 ga weighs a little bit over 6 lbs...a nice gun to tote if walking all day...and the ten ga is lite too at 8 1/4 lbs...charlie
charlie cleveland is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-01-2021, 12:19 PM   #15
Member
Cold Spring
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,879
Thanks: 3,267
Thanked 6,246 Times in 1,201 Posts

Default

It's commonly known that 12-gauge Remington 1894 and 1900 double-guns were typically targeted with 1-1/4 ounce of #8 hard shot and the "pellet counts" were stamped on the barrel lug.

How about 16-gauge Remington 1894 and 1900's? The pellet count numbers don't seem to correlate with the choke constrictions unless you cipher using 1-1/8 ounce of #8 shot. But the max 16-gauge period loads topped out at 1-ounce of shot. Last I read, no Remington hang tags have surfaced that would show the load and specifics for targeting 16's. So with that in mind, who has what thoughts on these 16-gauge pellet count numbers?
Frank Srebro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-01-2021, 02:00 PM   #16
Member
double barrel
PGCA Member
 
Ken Descovich's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 358
Thanks: 580
Thanked 378 Times in 130 Posts

Default

Here is a picture of my 16 ga model 1894.
Ken
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 16122023743264842509852964303026.jpg (500.0 KB, 4 views)
Ken Descovich is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ken Descovich For Your Post:
Unread 02-01-2021, 02:32 PM   #17
Member
Cold Spring
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,879
Thanks: 3,267
Thanked 6,246 Times in 1,201 Posts

Default

Thank you Ken. Your 295/300 correlates with strong Full choke in both barrels if targeting had been done with 1-ounce of chilled 8’s. Out of curiosity do you know the decimal constrictions in both barrels?
Frank Srebro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-01-2021, 02:41 PM   #18
Member
Researcher
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Dave Noreen's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,597
Thanks: 1,617
Thanked 7,773 Times in 2,353 Posts

Default

There were 409 #8s per ounce, so 300/409 = 73.3% and 295/409 = 72.1%

I believe the 16-gauge guns were targeted with 1 ounce of #8s, but have yet to find a hang-tag to confirm that. My two 16-gauges are marked 293 (71.6%) left & 288 (70.4%) right, and 301 (73.6%) left & 246 (60.1%) right.

The pellet count tables in the Remington Arms Co. catalogs of the period give counts for 40%, 60% and 75% but show patters labeled Cylinder, Modified Choke and Full Choke.

Just to keep us confused, Remington Arms Co. put recommended maximum powder charges on the back of their hang-tags for all three gauges, but no mention of shot charge?!? This tag shows the old Laflin & Rand dense smokeless powder --

319322 04 Hang-Tag back.jpg

By this tag they have moved on to the L & R Infallible --

131920 02 back.jpeg
Dave Noreen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dave Noreen For Your Post:
Unread 02-01-2021, 07:41 PM   #19
Member
Cold Spring
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,879
Thanks: 3,267
Thanked 6,246 Times in 1,201 Posts

Default

I agree, it seems logical that 16 bore Remington 1894 and 1900 guns would have been targeted using 1-ounce loads of # 8c shot by count in the 40 yard/30" circle.

Then we look at the Remington 1900 barrels pictured on page 51 of the DGJ, Volume 28/Issue 2. Note the pellet count of 228 for the right barrel and accompanying comment by the respected Remington double-gun author, Terry Deem, that 228 indicates an original "Improved Cylinder" aka 1/4 choke. He also states that a pellet count of 268 would be correct for "Modified" choke.

But we remember that IC is defined as 45% efficiency in the 30" circle at 40 yards. Now then, if 1-ounce loads had been used for targeting ..... 228/409 = 55.7% or almost Improved-Modified (3/4 choke).

Mr Deen ciphered using 460 pellets in 1-1/8 of # 8c shot to ID that 228 right barrel choke but that still doesn't work out. 228/460 = 49.6% or actually about "Modified" or what was called 1/2 choke.

All this math is confusing. To further our knowledge of these great Remington double-guns it would be nice if 16-gauge 1894/1900 owners would post the pellet counts AND the actual constrictions for each choke. That in turn would allow us to correlate and with a large enough sample size, to work backwards to the pellet size and maybe even that a different distance was used when these 16 bore guns were targeted and stamped for pellet count.
Frank Srebro is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank Srebro For Your Post:
Unread 02-02-2021, 01:06 PM   #20
Member
Researcher
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Dave Noreen's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,597
Thanks: 1,617
Thanked 7,773 Times in 2,353 Posts

Default

My 16-gauge KE-Grade that is stamped 288 right and 293 left is .024" in both barrels. This gun is 1909 vintage by Charles Semmer's serial number chronology.

My 16-gauge DEO-Grade that is stamped 246 right and 301 left is .014" right and .032" left. This gun is 1905 vintage.
Dave Noreen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave Noreen For Your Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2023, Parkerguns.org
Copyright © 2004 Design par Megatekno
- 2008 style update 3.7 avec l'autorisation de son auteur par Stradfred.