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Englishter Shooting Show
Unread 09-02-2018, 09:47 AM   #1
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Default Englishter Shooting Show

Very entertaining which seems to be less pretentious than some of the content you see about driven pheasant hunts. Disappointing not to see any sxs's at all that I noticed of any prominence mentioned on a British show. Also quite interesting to see Browning and Remington as American brands so entrenched in what I thought a typical stodgy British market. It definitely is a global economy even in shooting sports. Shot cam on glasses was cool but could be made better if they put camera over the shooting eye instead of the nose bridge.

Another tidbit that I picked up on toward end clip, this is part of my observation wondering when we will start hearing it on our side of the pond, is the mandating use of fiber wads instead of plastic wads and shot cups. Also since fiber wads are being pushed how the gun manufacturing like Browning are moving back to nominal bores instead of overboring since fiber wads don't perform well in overbore guns. That is news to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWlfladlEZY
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Unread 09-02-2018, 09:07 PM   #2
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Not too surprising not to see the SxSs in this segment; the current rage in GB driven shooting is very high pheasant and partridge shooting with long-barreled, small gauge guns, the vast majority of which are modern built of course as opposed to SxSs. Some of the current favorite makers are not even British! Browning has always enjoyed a brisk trade in the UK, both FN Custom Shop factory new as well as the classic early post-WW II Superposeds, mostly 12s and 20s. FN is building some 20 and 28 ga. 32" O/Us that are artistic joys as well as superior handling guns.

One of the great joys of shooting over there is the number of FN SxSs as well as O/Us that were never imported to the US. When we shot there in 2002 the majority of our shooting party shot English SxSs (Purdey, Greener, Woodward, Dickson, Boss, H&H, etc.). I was the only one with a great 1950s vintage Grade 5 Browning Superposed, and took a lot of ribbing about it, believe me! By the time I was able to return in 2006 I shot an 1891 H&H Royal Grade and heard nary a snicker.

Regarding the fibre wad ammo, on both trips we were provided with Eley 2 1/2" Gold Elite in both 12 and 20 gauge, 7/8 oz. of hard, high-antimony content shot and fibre wads. At 40-45 yards, they would fold a duck or large rooster pheasant up like a fresh tamale.
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Unread 09-03-2018, 12:04 PM   #3
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That is interesting Kevin. Appreciate your perspective. For those 40 and 50 yard shots what chokes are they typically shooting and what sized shot. I would think at least modified and imp modified and probably 5 and 6 shot.

That is interesting about them shooting 7/8 ounce loads. 7/8's is the ideal square load for a 20 bore and obviously less than square with the 12 gauge. Those must be some tight patterns with limited shot stringing in that 12. I always knew the Brits were big into squaring the load and shot columns.

Btw I know Browning was a big proponent of back boring and makes sense to reduce recoil using tight sealing plastic wads. Interesting that they are doing an about face going back to the tried and true nominal bores based on fiber wad mandate. Give the consumers what they want. That is very good performance with fiber wads. Just goes to show you how much thought goes into getting the right loads in harmony with gauge and game.
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Unread 09-03-2018, 09:11 PM   #4
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For SxS driven game guns the choke combinations can run anywhere from CYL & IMP to CYL & FULL, depending on the style and type of shooting. For example, driven pheasants (fast) and partridge (faster) coming at the guns, many prefer a MOD or FULL choke for birds at the greater distance, then IC or CYL for the direct overhead shot as the second barrel, the range being much closer. For driven red grouse (the fastest!), #6s or #7s at increased velocities are required. (As you probably know, the Brits in general are not big on variable choke tube devices; they prefer to alternate types and specialties in ammunition instead - spreaders, collared loads for densest patterns, etc.). I would classify them as a "fixed choke nation" with the occasional exception for sporting clays.

For typical driven setups with birds at 35-45 yards, #7 shot is ideal. For ducks at the usual longer ranges, #5 or #6 depending on conditions (strong wind, rain, etc.). The real key is the quality of the ammo. Best quality fibre wadding and high-antimony hard shot make an incredible difference in performance in the field.

I don't think the Brits paid much attention to "squaring the load" in either the 12 or the 20 gauge. When the rules for international (e.g., 'bunker' or 'Olympic') trap were changed sometime in the late 1980s the only specific prohibition for ammunition was that the shot charge could be no more than 7/8 oz. You could have as much powder as you could get into the case, the hottest primers, and whatever 'superwad' you could conger up, but you could have no more than 7/8 oz. of shot. Some of the factory stuff that showed up at the bigger shoots was unbelievable; velocities approaching steel shot specs and wad columns that took up fully half of the shell. Any of them would turn a clay pigeon into confetti at 65 yards from a good second barrel kill. The Italians had the hottest and the largest variety.

Regarding Browning guns and backboring, I don't know anything about modern ATA-style trapshooting and the bizarre modern configurations used for it, but I know that Browning FN true mid-bore diameters in the Superosed and B-25 generation of O/Us measured .723 diameter as opposed to the 'standard' US .729. So with the combination of a slightly smaller bore diameter, superior wadding, hardened shot and optimum proprietary burn-rate powders, you wound up with an unbeatable combination of ballistic efficiency due to optimum gas seal, velocity and patterns.
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