A Germanic Masterpiece

[J. A. EARLY]

A pointing dog standing hares? My dogs used to do that but I was not hunting "wabbits." Is this normal in Germany in the late 1800s? Seems strange for an engraving.

[Mike Franzen]

That is a beautiful gun. I love the intricate detail. One thing I wonder about is why the 16 gauge seems to be the predominant chambering for German Guns?

[Southpaw]

If there was somebody that was into Steampunk culture and shooting, that would be the gun for them as a must have. Very Victorian and ornate. The trigger guard and awning style pistol grip rivals some of the metal work you would see in the New Orleans French Quarter. That is definitively a very interesting and cool looking gun that would be fun to own and shoot.

I think Germans and main land Europeans really embraced the it can do it all mentality of 16 gauge. I remember reading this article from Gun Digest and found it again. In US the skeet shooters disenfranchised the 16 gauge and I think they should pay some sort of restitution towards our ammo cost. 16 gauge has been discriminated against and deserves some sort of class action protection from gun industry, or not.

https://gundigest.com/more/classic-g...-what-happened

BTW what did the Germane's say about the gun.

[Mike Franzen]

Thanks for posting the link Todd. I bought the ebook. It will make great reading while I’m at the beach these next couple of weeks.

[Southpaw]

You bet Mike. Enjoy the read. What I really like about the first paragraph in excerpt is that it is talking about perfect shot column dimensions or so called squaring the load, that the 16 gauge naturally does with a 1 ounce load. I think that is what was so attractive about 16 gauge as a field gun; light guns, manageable recoil (with proper load) and great patterns. Even diminutive Annie Oakley really liked 16 gauge a lot as her go to gauge. I also suspect that with the proper dimensional shot columns that the 16 gauge has less shot stringing problems. (Just an unverified hunch that some or most might disagree but..)

All I know is that Germans know something about ballistics.

Also like the lower part talking about what others have mentioned about German guns, they throw a lot into some guns but a lot have features not really suited for upland hunting. I think years ago if they would have adapted guns to upland style dimensions favorable to that pursuit there would be a lot more well made sxs upland guns in US hunter arsenals. I think anything German between WW1 and probably into late 1950's was frowned upon in mainstream populous pschye. I do know that alot of American service men came home with a lot of Suhl sxs's but alot of those were cheaper made guns. Used to see alot of them in gun stores but not as much anymore.

[Merv Boyd]

Thank you for posting. Love the engraving. Almost bought a German 16 gauge box lock with similar engraving several years ago. Stock was cracked at the wrist so I passed on it. Regretted it ever since!

[Keavin Nelson]

This is the work-up I put together for the owner - with input from the GGCA
Gun Review – Keavin L Nelson 8-16-18 – with input from the German Gun Collectors Association,
Owner:
16 Ga. AM Gmeiners & Sohn SN 1764
Round action sidelock double barrel shotgun. Full engraving coverage depicting hares, hounds, fowl and fox, all well executed with fine detail. Cocking indicators, with ornate iron and bone sculpted trigger guard. Checkering is well executed at 20 LPI. Bernard Damascus barrels exhibiting a very nice contrast finish in a 95% condition. Total gun weight of 6#7oz.
In general the gun is in very good condition with the only significant issue is that of the partially broken bone trigger guard. The bores are clean and smooth, with just a bit of frosting in from of the chambers and in the forcing cones.
Gun Dimensions: Barrel length – 30 ¾”, DAH 2 5/8”, DAC 1 ¼”, LOP 14” to front trigger
Chamber and bore dimension
Chamber Bore Choke Points Gauged
Right Barrel 2 ½” .672 .648 (.24) Improved Cyl
Left Barrel 2 5/8” .669 .635 (.35) Full


The gun was indeed proofed October 1912 by the Zella – Mehlis proofhouse, ledger number 483 and ZM mark found on the barrel flats, which would likely indicate it was manufactured in 1912. So it was most likely made by the guntrade there for Gmeiner. The Damascus barrel blanks were certainly imported from Belgium. Nearly all such barrels were forged by the smithes in the Liege area.

Anton Melchior Gmeiner & Sohn (= son Heinrich Anton Gmeiner) were country gunmakers at Josephsplatz 2 in Altenburg, Thuringia, then in the petty state Duchy Saxe – Altenburg. The Gmeiners were gunmakers to the court of the Dukes of Saxe – Altenburg, Erich I and Erich II. Certainly a very nice and unusual pre-WW1 German gun, as it is a round action sidelock.(from GGCA)
As is typical for European guns of this era, there are many marks/stampings on the barrel flats. The following is the interpretation as may be determined from various sources.
The circled 16 denotes the nominal gauge of the cartridges the gun takes, while 17 is the actual gauge of the barrel bores at the proofhouse. The gun was blackpowder and nitro proofed. This means smokeless powder loads may be fired in the gun, using 2 ½” low pressure loads.
 The crown/W mark stands for a choked barrel, amount of constriction was not marked.
 Crown S mark is the shotgun proof in effect from 1891 – 1939
 Crown U mark is the East German Inspector mark
 Crown N mark, accompanied by “NITRO” is the nitro proof mark which appears on the both sides of the barrels just above the barrel flats.
In terms of estimated value, consulting various German guns listed on sale sites such as Guns International, it would seem it’s value is somewhere in the xxxxx range.