Dry-fire Trojan - Page 3

John Bastiani · 06-14-2020, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Bishop

The PGCA doesn't have Hang Tags, we have Work Order Tags. Totally different tags. Work order tags were made after the gun was finished production and were not shipped with the gun. They gave build specifications. Hang Tags were filled out separately and were attached to the gun when shipped

Edited

The more I think about the WOT's I think the tags were made at the office and the info from the Order Book was written on the WOT. The WOT was then taken to the factory and the gun built according to what the tag said. I doubt the Order books ever left the office building. They were constantly being used. Parts were picked, S/N established, then as each procedure was finished, entered into the stock book.

Sir: When I purchased my Parker I received 3 letters with the gun and two are typed giving the specifications of the gun from the PGCA(2001) and signed by Mr. Ronald Kirby. The third letter is handwritten and list every detail and specification about the gun. It has the letters RYNY in the bottom right hand corner. Is this letter taken from the original factory ledgers and called the stock book or the order book?

Pa SxS · 06-14-2020, 02:47 PM

John, I would have to have the S/N of your gun. I can tell you that we started archiving research letters in 2004 and when searching for your name found none. Ron Kirby did the first letters but didn't archive them. Mark Conrad took over from Ron and did them for about 8 years, then I took over the letters in 2012. Mark started archiving in about 2004. The Order Books ended December 1919 so if there is Order Book information in your letter, it would have had to been made prior to 1920.

Give me your S/N.
Chuck

Pa SxS · 06-14-2020, 04:55 PM

Dean, I was all excited to dig into your question but when I looked at the WOT's, except for the real early ones which are real small and extremely dirty, most of the WOT's are in the range of 220k to 235k range, well after the order books ended in 1919. I did match up a bunch of them with the stock books but the stock books don't really give special instructions that the order book entry would. What I did find most interesting is that many of the WOT's showed a recoil pad where the stock books would never mention the butt treatment so the assumption would be that the gun had the standard butt for the grade of the gun. There are a lot of guns out there that we assumed they were retrofitted with a recoil pad when that was not the case. The large WOT's (there were 3 different sizes) many times would have interesting things written on the back side of the card. I've seen leather recoil pads, straight ribs, rounded recoil pad for a woman, etc. Real interesting reading. I think I'll start another thread with some pictures when I get time in my busy schedule

Dean Romig · 06-14-2020, 06:34 PM

Thanks Chuck - you’re always very accomodating and eager to dig into finding answers to the more generalized questions we may have.

.

John Bastiani · 06-14-2020, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Bishop

John, I would have to have the S/N of your gun. I can tell you that we started archiving research letters in 2004 and when searching for your name found none. Ron Kirby did the first letters but didn't archive them. Mark Conrad took over from Ron and did them for about 8 years, then I took over the letters in 2012. Mark started archiving in about 2004. The Order Books ended December 1919 so if there is Order Book information in your letter, it would have had to been made prior to 1920.

Give me your S/N.
Chuck

My gun was made in 1926. The serial number is 218350. Also; the letters are not in my name but the prior owner-Carl Balderson.

Pa SxS · 06-14-2020, 10:59 PM

John, since your Trojan was made after 1919, there is no Order Book information on this gun however there is Stock Book information available. The Stock Book lists frame size, grade and barrel steel, grip type, LOP, DAH, and weight.

If you can, please post copies of your letters. If Ron Kirby had more information other than what is in the Stock Book, I'd be really surprised and so would the rest of the PGCA membership. BTW, I also checked the Griffin & Howe database for the gun and they don't list your gun.

Regards,
Chuck

David Noble · 06-15-2020, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Bishop

....... The Order Books ended December 1919.....Chuck

Chuck, are you saying that PB quit using Order Books in Dec. 1919 or that the PGCA doesn’t have any records from Order Books made after that date?

mobirdhunter · 06-15-2020, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Bishop

Dean, I was all excited to dig into your question but when I looked at the WOT's, except for the real early ones which are real small and extremely dirty, most of the WOT's are in the range of 220k to 235k range, well after the order books ended in 1919. I did match up a bunch of them with the stock books but the stock books don't really give special instructions that the order book entry would. What I did find most interesting is that many of the WOT's showed a recoil pad where the stock books would never mention the butt treatment so the assumption would be that the gun had the standard butt for the grade of the gun. There are a lot of guns out there that we assumed they were retrofitted with a recoil pad when that was not the case. The large WOT's (there were 3 different sizes) many times would have interesting things written on the back side of the card. I've seen leather recoil pads, straight ribs, rounded recoil pad for a woman, etc. Real interesting reading. I think I'll start another thread with some pictures when I get time in my busy schedule

I look forward to such a thread!

Dean Romig · 06-15-2020, 06:47 AM

Ron Kirby, along with supplying the information available in the dooks, also supplied names of employees and contractors who worked for PB, as having worked on “your” gun. I always suspected he tossed in that info just for embellishment and don’t believe those folks names were actually recorded as having worked on specific serial numbered guns.

.

John Bastiani · 06-15-2020, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Bishop

John, since your Trojan was made after 1919, there is no Order Book information on this gun however there is Stock Book information available. The Stock Book lists frame size, grade and barrel steel, grip type, LOP, DAH, and weight.

If you can, please post copies of your letters. If Ron Kirby had more information other than what is in the Stock Book, I'd be really surprised and so would the rest of the PGCA membership. BTW, I also checked the Griffin & Howe database for the gun and they don't list your gun.

Regards,
Chuck

The third letter is on a plain sheet of paper and is handwritten(printed) and has a line in the middle. Starts out: Make|Parker model|Trojan SN|218350 Gauge|20ga and goes on to list every other feature about the gun: LOP -frame size -date of manufacture-pistol grip- etc. At the very bottom in the right hand corner there are four letters "RYNY" The only thing that doesn't match is the chamber length which the PGCA and handwritten letter states as 2 3/8 and the auction company called it 2 1/2. Which chamber length should it be? Also: Its entirely possible that the previous owner could have wrote this information down for his own reference.