Disconnect between Hang-Tag & Letter

[Researcher]

I was just looking at a 20-gauge for sale on GI that includes the original hang-tag and has a letter. The letter states "RH full and LH full."

The hang-tag states the gun was targeted with 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells with 2 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder and 7/8 ounce of #8 Tatham Chilled Shot. The tag states R.H. Bbl. targets 100 pellets, L.H. Bbl. targets 150 pellets. According to the charts I've found, Tatham #8s run 399 per ounce which would be 349 in 7/8 ounce. 100/349 = 28.7% and 150/349 = 43% essentially extremely open.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...n_id=101458959

[James L. Martin]

I saw the same , I would believe the hang tags, with today's ammo the gun skeet and mod.Chokes listed as .005 & .017

[B. Dudley]

Not the first gun I have seen with chokes that did not match a letter. And I am talking about cases there the gun is much tighter than the letter states on one or both barrels. That doesn't just happen on its own.

[Researcher]

After sleeping on this, it occurs to me that the gun might well have been built for stock full & full and then the chokes opened per the hang-tag to fill an order.

[Pa SxS]

Attached is a copy of the stock book for 195024 and above it is 195023 which is a 16ga. gun. Notice the 2 entries for pellet count on the 16ga. gun. The top is RH, the bottom LH. This was with #7 shot. Look at the pellet count for 195024 and you see only 1 entry which would mean both barrels had the same pellet count using #8 shot. I guess that there could have been an entry on top of 240 but I can't see it. Using 240 as the pellet count it comes out to 69%, much different than the hang tag!

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Chuck Bishop

Attached is a copy of the stock book for 195024 and above it is 195023 which is a 16ga. gun. Notice the 2 entries for pellet count on the 16ga. gun. The top is RH, the bottom LH. This was with #7 shot. Look at the pellet count for 195024 and you see only 1 entry which would mean both barrels had the same pellet count using #8 shot. I guess that there could have been an entry on top of 240 but I can't see it. Using 240 as the pellet count it comes out to 69%, much different than the hang tag!

I love looking at the pages from the records. It's like looking at the Dead Sea Scrolls. (And I'm glad Chuck can read this writing!)

[Spin Drift]

If I remember correctly rom reading it here a few months ago, PB used a 20" circle for patterning.

[Researcher]

If I remember correctly rom reading it here a few months ago, PB used a 20" circle for patterning.

The pattern circle diameter and distance changed over time. The earliest tag I've saved a picture of that shows the Brothers P using the "standard" 30-inch circle at forty yards is in the 117xxx range. The hang-tag for the gun in question shows the 30-inch circle at forty yards.

195024 01 .jpg

[Dean Romig]

There was also a period during which the patterning ‘circle’ was actually an oval... something like 18” X 24” or some such. Chuck can verify the dimensions. I don’t know if the oval was in a “portrait” position or “landscape” position though.






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[Pa SxS]

The very first guns were patterned using 18 x 24" at 45 yards. I'm guessing it was an oval. Then it was 24" at 45 yards, then finally 30" at 40 yards. I think the small gouges were patterned at shorter distances sometimes. The stock books when copied many times would not show the distances. The book was too long for the copier.