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Unread 08-20-2018, 02:04 PM   #11
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I don't know Pete, the Vintagers of previous years was always held in late Sept. and had good attendance. My opinion is that after it folded for a few years the bloom is off the rose so to speak. Ray P. and his loyal Edwardian gents and ladies were not in the attendance numbers last year like they were before.

My opinion is that there are 3 really well attended and fun shoots before this one. (Deep river, Ernie's and Mike's in August.) Maybe this is just one too many too late. Hunting seasons are pretty much underway and if this one was'nt in my backyard so to speak, I would'nt be attending.
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Unread 08-20-2018, 04:14 PM   #12
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When it was held at Pintail there was never a shortage of vendors or attendees.

But one personís MO was probably more responsible for the current situation than anything else... But heís gone and those in charge today are running it right.

It should be considered a new and fresh beginning. And it will be if folks would give it a chance.





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Unread 08-20-2018, 04:50 PM   #13
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I was planning to spin off/trade some guns to larger dealers at the VGC, and read on another site that Steve Barnett will not be there. I DO NOT personally know if that’s accurate. However I did talk today with Jay Schacter of Vintage Firearms who told me he will not be at the Orvis Game Fair nor at the VGC this year due to getting his new store up and running. As others have written it would be good to see a firm list of vendors and fairly quickly at that.
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Unread 08-20-2018, 06:07 PM   #14
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I am not in the business of selling guns but the economics of attending these events makes little sense to me if I were a gun dealer. Table rental, travel costs and accommodations can easily exceed 2K-3K. You would need to sell 10K+ worth of guns just to break even and nobody in America is in business to break even. Shopping has become more internet based and shipping guns for inspection, it is more efficient for buyer and seller.
SxS shooting events have become too numerous in my opinion but the market will eventually correct the situation and eliminate the weaker ones.
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Unread 08-20-2018, 06:22 PM   #15
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Craig is exactly right. Actually, most of my purchases at gun shows were from other members and not dealers. The camaraderie is the main reason to go to shows
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Unread 08-20-2018, 07:05 PM   #16
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The only businesses that may ultimately be able to justify attending these events are the major auction houses. They are the market makers today for high end stuff and their margins can justify the expense. The vintage shoots are a great venue to market both upcoming sales and obtain consignments. Free market capitalism is brutal but efficient. The small and weak will ultimately fail. Most dealer will rely almost fully on the internet and fed-ex in the future.
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Unread 08-20-2018, 07:49 PM   #17
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The cost for exhibition space at bigger events like the Southern and the Vintage Cup is completely ridiculous. $600-800 for a basic space with 2 tables! Imagine what the bigger vendors are spending!
At a lot of these events these days a smaller vendor is lucky to sell a gun or two or even just trade something. And most do not have margins to make up a $1,000 or more expense after tables, hotel and travel.

It getting to just not make financial sense.

At least at events like Ernie’s and Mike’s the vendor exhibition space is reasonably priced.
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Unread 08-20-2018, 08:28 PM   #18
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FWIW - I have been approached several times over the last 2 years by the 'prime movers' of a number of these events, I suppose because I'm old now and have a good looking grandfather beard, but mostly because I've been to most of these things since the original VC at Addieville RI back in God knows what year. The primal question was always; "Where do you see this (these things) going?" Meaning of course the SxS's attraction of showing, selling, competition, and all things connected with it.

My answer is always the same: IMHO these type events enjoy a very predictable and finite life expectancy, mostly subject to the vagaries of event location, changing management, degree of difficulty and layout of the target courses and regimen, quality of ancillary services (quality of food service, number and placement of Port-A-Johns, availability of golf carts), costs for booth or tables, proximity to decent and affordable lodging, and is there anything for the wife or girlfriend to do while the beaux are oogling guns or actually shooting events?

Most of the commenters to this thread so far have touched on many of these factors. I think one of the major elements of declining attendance by both dealers and the public is that the event has been "interrupted" too many times since its departure from Sandanona; essentially never having been held in the same place more than 3 years in a row since then. It needs a real "home", in other words. I think may dealers interpret this as an event with a "rootless" existence, and shy away from participating due to the unpredictability of any kind of continuum over the near-term. Our collector organizations need to help keep it and similar events alive through displays, education, participation in competitions like the FPC, LCSPC and others. Being there is now much more than half the fun!

Last edited by Kevin McCormack; 08-20-2018 at 08:29 PM.. Reason: mispelled word
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Unread 08-20-2018, 08:39 PM   #19
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Kevin, I think your comments concerning how it may have attained a level of “rootless existence” are quite valid.

Unfortunately it may have reached that “point of no return” but I sure hope it can be salvaged.
If memory serves me, it was held at Pintail Point it was for longer than three years. If I recall correctly, Didn’t we set up there for five years?





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Unread 08-20-2018, 08:48 PM   #20
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Dean, my understanding was that they (the VC) had signed a 3-year commitment contract with Pintail Point for holding the event there for that duration at a minimum. It has been just long enough and enough mental miles that I cannot confirm that for sure. It could have been longer.
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