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Unread 05-07-2019, 09:48 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Harry Collins View Post
Dean,

I do not know if the problem was fixed before moving to the 00 frame for the 28 gauge. My thought is that it was.

Harry
Dean, If I remember correctly, it was on the early O frame 28 gauge guns.
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Unread 05-07-2019, 10:10 AM   #22
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Mark, I used Harry's reamer on one of my guns and another member's gun. It is a simple process, hand operated, hard to make an error. Just keep the reamer a little wet with oil to prevent rust, and all will be well. What is the serial number of the offending gun?
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Unread 05-07-2019, 10:31 AM   #23
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If i ever get the damn gun open! Seriously, Kirk fitted these barrels to the gun recently, and i have sot a couple hundred rounds of RST ammo through the gun without incident. I think something gave up inside.
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Unread 05-07-2019, 10:35 AM   #24
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BTW this is a 00 frame gun. Extractor
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Unread 05-07-2019, 10:57 AM   #25
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Probably not a rim recess problem.
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Unread 05-07-2019, 11:14 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Harry Collins View Post
I had an early 28 VH on an 0 frame. The rim recess was shallow by todays standards. There were few modern 28 gauge shells that would allow the gun too close. I purchased a reamer and fixed the problem. It was common to the early 28 gauge Parkers. So common that I ended up lending the reamer to a number of PGCA members.

This is not an issue that is unique to 28g. It can happen with any gauge. And even within different manufacturers of ammunition.
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Unread 05-07-2019, 12:41 PM   #27
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As I stated earlier in this thread, I've had 3 Parkers with rim recess issues and would be surprised if this wasn't the issue here. The problem was/is with the ammo, not the gun. I bought a very nice Clymer rim recess reamer for 12 ga but have not wanted to use it on my D grade because when you drop it in and let the pilot do it's thing, you find that the breech end of the barrels is not orthogonal to the center line of the barrels, or at least not orthogonal to what the reamer pilot thinks is the center line. If I ream it enough to get the entire recess reamed part of it would be too deep. I reamed my Dougal with it and ended up with the the shells a tad below the breech. It still works but is a tad unsightly. Have been afraid to touch my D grade with it. Anyone else have any experience with this issue? I monkeyed with this reamer a lot and just can not get it to engage the recess evenly around the circumference. It's not loose and wobbling; it just doesn't line up. I'd be happy to send it to someone who wanted to monkey with it. Anyone who wants to see how out of round modern shotshell rims are need to stand a half a dozen up on a table and take a dial caliper and put it on the rim then rotate the shell. The dial will indicate out of round rims much of the time. You force them into a nicely cut and round recess and they will stick, and hard sometimes. I've never had an STS or any vintage paper shell rim stick in any gun.

Thanks to Dave for his post below. If we analyze the issue at every level it seems that there can be two issues generated by the modern shell rims. My issue seemed, I think, to be the locking lug getting jammed. I could not move the lever far enough to the right to disengage it; it was jammed solid. Putting it in the vise and applying gentle pressure relieved that jam and the lever moved over and the gun opened. What I can't remember is if the shells came out easily once it was opened. My Repro is an ejector gun, of course, but I can't remember if I still had to knock the shells out with a cleaning rod. It seems I didn't, but I just can't remember. The cause of my issue then could have been just the thick rims Dave refers to below. If I did have to knock them out, that would indicate that the second issue was the out of round rims sticking in the recesses. If the rims weren't stuck the ejectors would toss them when the gun was opened. Just being out of round, but not being over thick would not necessarily jam the locking lug, but it certainly could; it would jam the rims into the recesses and maybe also jam the locking lug some. So, the whole issue might come about when you close the gun, not when you shoot it. Jamming out of round rims into the recesses could lock the gun up without shooting it. Shooting it might make it worse if the rims are also too thick or expand backwards into the breech faces, putting stress on the lug. Are we lost yet?? A multi-pronged issue, not too complicated, but not not as simple as it might seem either.
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Unread 05-07-2019, 12:55 PM   #28
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I've got the same problem with my 28-gauge Model 12 Skeet Gun. I shot it in competition with the early compression formed AAs from 1973 to early 1977 and it worked fine. Modern AAs and STSs are very hard to close on and then even harder to eject. I took an old box of paper Winchester Super-Speed 28-gauge loads from my ammo collection and shot a round of skeet with them with no issues. The rims on those shells were visibly thinner than the modern shells.
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Unread 05-07-2019, 01:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Murphy View Post
Mark, I used Harry's reamer on one of my guns and another member's gun. It is a simple process, hand operated, hard to make an error. Just keep the reamer a little wet with oil to prevent rust, and all will be well. What is the serial number of the offending gun?
Traveling now sodont have sccess to ser#’s, but !!, it is an early @1911 action and later 30’s barrels.
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Unread 05-07-2019, 06:53 PM   #30
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Dave, I have never had any trouble with my Model 12 28 gauge and its ammo, except that is the roughest working Model 12 I have ever pumped. It is an original George Ulrich engraved Pigeon Grade skeet gun, but no better pumper than a new field grade. I am confident that, with another several thousand shells, I can loosen it up.
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