The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

[tom tutwiler]

Late to the party here. What shell caused the problem, the Kent or the Winchester?

[Rick Roemer]

I’ve shot the Kent shells for several years with no problems and good results. I only shot one of these Winchester shells and it blew up the barrel. Based on several qualified smiths looking at the barrels I’m fairly certain the shell called caused the problem. I’m yet to hear back if Winchester will do anything about it. The realist in me says maybe some free shells. But I would be pleasantly surprised if the company would share in the repair cost.

[tom tutwiler]

Originally Posted by Rick Roemer

I’ve shot the Kent shells for several years with no problems and good results. I only shot one of these Winchester shells and it blew up the barrel. Based on several qualified smiths looking at the barrels I’m fairly certain the shell called caused the problem. I’m yet to hear back if Winchester will do anything about it. The realist in me says maybe some free shells. But I would be pleasantly surprised if the company would share in the repair cost.

Thanks. I believe a fair number of Fox folks shoot those kent shells out of their Fox Supers for waterfowl. I am not aware of anyone shooting the Longbeard ammo out of any Foxes (including me). I just did some searching on Old Gobbler (turkey hunting forum) regarding issues with long beard ammo. There have been a number of issues that have surfaced lately. First, is failure to fire. The second is a bad batch of Longbeards where the resin was too hard and came out much like a slug. Folks who were getting amazing patterns were instead finding cases where there was a slug like hole in their targets where the resin failed to shatter when going through the choke (which is what they are designed to do). Accordingly, there is a possibility that you have a box of ammo that is essentially acting like a slug, and that's what caused your issue.

What I'd recommend is mark every shell you have and then send some of those marked shells to Winchester and keep some for yourself for independent testing and also take a picture of the box and the marked shells together showing the lot number. I'd picture the heck out of everything and tell Winchester what you are doing (in a nice way). FWIW, this issue has been reported to Winchester about the Resin being too hard and not shattering as it was intended to when going through the choke.

Read this thread, it might be helpful: http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.ph...c,94113.0.html

[James L. Martin]

That's very disturbing info on those long beard shells ,I have killed 3 or 4 birds with them but mine are at least 3 years old. I am using a Remington 11-87 with Rem.extra full choke tube. After reading that thread I am now sure those shells did cause that model 21 to fail.

[Rick Roemer]

OK thx. Like I said originally I’m really glad nobody got hurt but if there is a defective element to the shells I believe Winchester should step up. Pretty deep pockets.

[Steve Hodges]

I use the Winchester Longbeard Ammo for turkey hunting out of my Benelli SBE2. I can tell you they knock the SNOT out of you, and that is with an auto that is pretty heavy and bleeds off some of the recoil. They are very stout loads that I would not think are appropriate for anything but a modern gun. But I might be wrong.

[Bill Murphy]

What people don't understand is that Model 21 3" magnum barrels are the same barrels that are installed on 2 3/4" skeet guns. The wall thickness is the same in both, unlike the 3" Model 12 barrels, which are thicker and heavier. There may be exceptions to this rule, but every 3" Model 21 I have owned, including some that I still own, have been 7 1/2 pound guns, no heavier. I would not shoot a shell in my Model 21 magnum guns that had a name like "turkey", "heavy goose" or any such title. They are common thin barrel field guns made with good steel that normally holds up under stress, but not always.

[Joe Graziano]

I was shooting my M21 on clays today. I shot the original M/F barrels and the Atlas Arms barrels with thin walls. Both work perfectly, thanks to Lou Rotelli. I wouldn’t recommend home gunsmithing on a M21. It looks so simple, but isn’t. That was a lesson learned.

[Jeff S.]

Rick, this is Jeff from Grand Rapids. Once upon a time I may, or may not have stuck a Fox sticker on your Jeep First, congratulations on the fine turkey and second, sorry to hear about the severe damage to your gun. Ouch! At least there were no injuries. Tom "vaturkey" was kind enough to share your misfortunate on the Fox Forum. I can't offer any advice, but I will say that I own a very light weight German Simson with thin wall choke tubes, so, it can be done. Jeff

[Rick Roemer]

Hey Jeff a.k.a. Mr. Fox! Good to hear from you this is the same gun I was using At the bo whoop shoot last year at Hausmann’s. I know you and I were there together. Hope to run into you again real soon