Newtown etc. effect on Gun Sales

[Double Lab]

Mark;
Very well said and your cartoon at the end kind of sums it up. I did'nt mean to start such a firestorm over the NRA but you now can see why the anti-gunners are winning. We as gun owners are not united. Death by a thousand cuts if you will. Once they change or abolish the 2nd amendment what's next the 4th? The real danger in all this is the subversion of the constitution to suit the liberal's agenda on their view of America to suit their electorate. Did you forget this corrupt adminstrations flirt with the UN arms treaty? United we stand, divided we fall. Period!

[David Noble]

Originally Posted by Jay Gardner

Sure. But for the NRA the 2nd A would have been erased from the Bill of Rights. I assume you took Civics 101 in high school. As I said earlier, the inability to stand any criticism of the NRA's tactics and policies will ultimately lead to the decline in the relevance and power of the organization.

Jay, I myself have criticized some of the tactics or quotes from the NRA over the last thirty five years that I have been a life member. But then how can we expect an organization with as many members as it, to please every single one? There is no way, everyone has their own opinion. That being said, they were fighting for my and your rights and regardless of their tactics they have managed to preserve them for a lot of years. Like them or not, join them in the battle, who else is going to fight this for us?
Mark, I agree with you on the violent games that glorify killing with no remorse or regard. Most of the children and young adults that use these games have no real experience with firearms. I taught my sons proper gun handling and safety and took them afield as much as I could when they were young. Now they are young adults and I'm sure they have played some of these games, but at least I know they have a strong foundation of proper firearms use. Education is a key factor here.

[Dennis]

No matter what Wayne LaPierre said or how he said it the media has vilified the NRA to the point that it would have been labeled as on the lunatic fringe. As a past law enforcement officer and then a prison correctional officer I can tell you that no matter what laws we pass as a society the criminals will NOT obey them. Criminals will steer clear of someone when they fear the person has a firearm. Why can't the politicians get that simple fact. In America our politicians have this belief that if something is wrong then simply pass a law and it will be all better. Nope, sorry politicians it doesn't work like that. As for the mental health afflicted people they aren't thinking with enough cylinders working to know it is wrong to kill people.

The Newtown school principal who courageously but foolishly rushed from her office to stop the killer would have been much smarter and all of those people would be alive today if she had simply gone into the hallway with her own weapon and shot the killer dead. But our society clings to the old notion of trying to reason with insanity or criminal behavior. Trust my thinking or not but there is a lot of evil in society today and in my experience some people just need to be killed or they will forever remain a threat to us and our kids. I am sorry if this thinking offends others but then maybe they need to get their own experience in dark alleys and prison corridors.

[Kensal Rise]

Dennis:
You have pretty well nailed it.

Lets hope responsible gun owners manage to get out of this with minimal damage.

Best, Kensal

[Setter Man]

I have been very vocal in my criticism of the NRA’s “solution” to the problem of violence in society, target specifically towards schools, primarily because it does not solve anything. (For those of you who disagree I suggest you find a dictionary and look up the word “solution”) In fact, it’s pretty clear that the “solution” proposed has actually created more anti-gun sentiment and may very well weaken the political power of the NRA. From the standpoint of PR and rationale debate their argument is illogical and, honestly just plain bad. Worse it just draws more dislike and distrust toward each of us as gun owners.

The problem is not about guns; it’s about people, many of whom should probably be hospitalized, having access to guns and therefore the only way to truly solve the problem is to keep guns out of the hands of these individuals. Fact is: no one who does not have a substantial psychological problems would even consider carrying out the acts of violence we have seen over the past several years, which usually ends in suicide (another indication of psychological problems) or death by cop (another indication of psychological problems). There is not going to be any solution to the problem unless and until those who would carry out these acts are identified and through due process (another constitutional right) are taken out of society. We used to do that but in the mid-80’s that stopped and it was shortly there after that mass shootings started to increase.

The responsibility however, is not solely that of the government; we as parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts and close friends owe it to each other to speak out when someone appears to be having problems. That is how it used to be but unfortunately today too many people don’t want to admit or acknowledge there is someone who needs help. Additionally, people need to start being parents and not relying on teachers and school systems to raise their children. We all grew up with guns, most of which were never under lock and key and at one time or another most of us probably took guns to school, in cars or trucks, planning to hunt on the way home. Yet none of us probably ever considered turning a gun on a friend or enemy because a disagreement or fist-fight.

If the NRA is sincerely interested in proffering a legitimate solution perhaps they should direct some of their substantial assets toward lobbying for improvements to the mental health system instead of one that will only result in more anti-gun sentiment and distrust and, which is self serving. (Suggesting everyone own a gun and schools have guns on premises will generating millions of dollars in profits for gun companies a percent of which will flow back to the NRA). Furthermore, the money that would be required to train, arm and secure our schools would be better spent securing society as a whole. It’s that type of solution that I had hoped the NRA would advance because as gun owners we would all benefit, but they did not. Instead they want to put the burden on schools, far too many of which are already stretched beyond the minimal resources they have. The NRA’s proposal would only diminish the goal of schools in the first place; educating our children.

Lastly, and this is directed at those who have taken exception to my criticism of the NRA, blindly following the NRA solely because you feel they the ONLY thing between where we are today and total disarmament, I don’t expect you to get understand. If you want to be respected you need to be respectful, something the NRA has struggled with since WL took the helm.

[BRDHNTR]

Fellow PGCA Members,

I started this thread so let me please end it. We have had a robust and respectful discussion these past few days of a very difficult (not to say emotional) issue before us and the Nation. It has been informative and constructive. We all share a common interest here so let's work in days and weeks ahead to strengthen it.

Let us all pray for peace and good will. Everyone have a wonderful Christmas and/or holiday whatever our faith may be. We are all God's children. All the best.

[Big D]

Jay - As a generalization, who could argue with mentally unstable folks not having access to gun? Now, real world, how could we do that?

I believe that every mass murder situation that has occurred in the US,m has occurred in a Guns Free zone. Hmmm. Perhaps that should tell us something

[Setter Man]

Originally Posted by John Dallas

Jay - As a generalization, who could argue with mentally unstable folks not having access to gun? Now, real world, how could we do that?

I believe that every mass murder situation that has occurred in the US,m has occurred in a Guns Free zone. Hmmm. Perhaps that should tell us something

Fort Hood (16-dead/30-wounded) was not a gun free zone. Oh, by the way soldiers are not permitted to be armed on the grounds unless there is a reason for them to be armed. That too should tell us something. If the Army does not allow soldiers, presumably well trained with firearms and the art of war, do you think it wise to require a 20-some year old female elementary school teacher to be armed? That's reality.

[Big Friend Ten (BFT)]

Jay,

You just contradicted yourself. The only personnel authorized to have weapons and ammunition within Fort Hood's Cantonment area (mainside in the Naval services) are Military Police. Fort Hood is for all practical purposes a Gun Free Zone. All privately owned weapons must be registered and cased.

I did not call you out by name in my previous post but since you chose not to let this thread die a slow death, much like our gun rights, now I am. What are YOU doing to combat the anti-bun movement? There are other organizations than the NRA. Have you supported those with your money and time?

PS: I have met and personally despise Chris Cox, the head of the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action. I still donate the to cause. The NRA doesn't always do what I think is best but overall it is the only thing that has been able to defend the Second Amendment!

Mark

[Larry the Gun Guy]

It's up to us to bridge the gap and keep the momentum in the right direction. You don't have to win all of the hearts across the country, you just have to win the few that don't understand and need some common sense guidance that will help us keep enjoying the gun freedom that we have now.

Unfortunately, WL and the administration at the NRA, of which I am a proud life member, didn't choose a very proactive approach. Don't ever think WL went out there on his own and started speaking. I'm sure all of those words and ideas were repeatedly hashed over by the powers to be at the headquarters of the NRA and WL is just the mouth piece. The NRA is the only organization that the politicians respect and fear.

Unfortunately, just sticking our heads in the sand and continuing to discuss our love for Parkers while the rest of the country decides our fate is not a good approach either.

But what I really don't like is packing the freeloaders along that want all of the benefits but are too timid to join in the fight and want to set on the sidelines and receive the trophy at the end. Like it or not, we're all in this together and you'd better be ready with a common sense answer when it comes your time to answer the question for those who don't understand.
We can do better for ourselves and the citizens of the country that don't share our passion but need solutions about how to keep them safe.