3 inch chambered 12 gauge

[Hammer Fan]

How common (if at all) were later Parker 12 gauge shotguns chambered in 3 inch? The Remington (and earlier) guns would have been produced well after the introduction of the 3" cartridge, but I don't recall seeing Parkers chambered for that shell. I've been in the search for a vintage 3" gun, and have been mainly focused on English guns, but I thought I should see if it would be worth spending the time looking for a Parker as well.

Are they as rare as hen's teeth, or were they commonly made in the 1920's-30's?

[Dean Romig]

They are far from common. Look for a Parker with 2 7/8" chambers for the 3" shell.






.

[Researcher]

Three-inch, and even longer, 12-gauge shells have been around here in North America just about as long as cartridge shotguns. Quite a few Parker Bros. doubles for Pigeon shooters and other gun cranks were ordered chambered for longer shells in the thirty some years before the progressive burning powder 12-gauge Super-X type load with 4 drams equiv. pushing 1 3/8 ounce of shot came out in the mid-1920s. These earlier long shells didn't come from our ammunition factories with loads any heavier then could be had in the 2 3/4 inch shell. They had more/better wadding which many serious shooters believed to be an advantage. Many of these earlier guns ordered for longer shells were often made on heavier frames. From what I've seen the few 12-gauges built in the late 1920s and 1930s for the 3-inch progressive burning powder shells were made on the 1 1/2 frame, but have a bit different exterior barrel profile for the longer chambers. The 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum shell with the 4 1/4 dram equiv. pushing 1 5/8 ounces of shot was introduced by the Olins in their Western Super-X and Winchester Super-Speed shells in 1935 along with their Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck.

Here is what Parker Bros. had to say a few years after the A.H. Fox Gun Co. introduced their HE-Grade Super-Fox and Hunter Arms Co. added their "Long Range" --

Parker Long Range -- In the 1929 "Flying Geese" catalogue the Brothers P had this to say -- "Magnum, Super, and variously named guns about which so much is now being written are not a new development in the gun makers' art.

For the past twenty years Parker Brothers have made guns to handle heavy charges of powder and shot, giving good patterns at long range. Recent improvements in powder and by shell manufacturers have served to make the Parker Long Range gun even more effective, so that today the Parker built and bored to secure the full power of modern loads with which one may confidently expect to bring down game at distances a few years ago considered impossible, is up to date but not new.

Parker Long Range guns are built to guard the user against abnormal recoil. The weight of the barrels is so distributed that the gun handles the heaviest loads with comfort. The purchaser of a Parker Long Range can rest assured that he will receive a gun, easy to handle, sufficiently heavy and properly bored to shoot the heaviest loads for the killing of wild fowl at extreme ranges."

The 1937 Remington era catalogue adds -- "Ordinarily Parker 12 gauge guns are chambered for shells up to and including 2 3/4 inches. These guns can be furnished with special long range choke boring to give more effective results at extreme ranges. 12 gauge double barrel guns, with the exception of the "Trojan" are also available with 3 inch chambers for use with maximum long range heavy loaded shells. So chambered, Parker guns are guaranteed to handle these shells properly."

"Parker 10 gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 7/8 inch loads, but are also available with 3 1/2 inch chambers for use with maximum loads. No extra charge for a Parker Long Range Gun. Guns should never be used with shells longer than those for which they are chambered. See table of complete specifications on page 34."

[Hammer Fan]

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

From what I've seen the few 12-gauges built in the late 1920s and 1930s for the 3-inch progressive burning powder shells were made on the 1 1/2 frame, but have a bit different exterior barrel profile for the longer chambers. The 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum shell with the 4 1/4 dram equiv. pushing 1 5/8 ounces of shot was introduced by the Olins in their Western Super-X and Winchester Super-Speed shells in 1935 along with their Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck.

Thank you, that is very good information. That seems to be inline with the British gun I own, and the ones I've been looking at. In British proofing they also had two 3 inch designations. The 3", 3 1/2 ton, 1 1/2 oz service proof would seem to very close to what the Parker 1 1/2 frame guns were designed for.


The later 3", 4 ton, 1 5/8 oz service proof would be what we would call the modern "Magnum" 3 inch cartridge.

I've developed a very effective, low pressure bismuth load for my British 3", 3 1/2 ton gun, and am searching for another gun to use with the same load. I would love to add a Parker with original 3 inch chambers. It sounds like it might be a long search though.

So here's another question, did later Parkers get marked with their chamber lengths on the barrels? The Parkers I've owned are earlier guns (1880's) and none are marked as to chamber length. I would be concerned with finding a Parker with "original" 3 inch chambers, instead of one that a gunsmith had worked on.

Is there a way to identify them without an order book lookup?

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

The 1937 Remington era catalogue adds -- "Ordinarily Parker 12 gauge guns are chambered for shells up to and including 2 3/4 inches. These guns can be furnished with special long range choke boring to give more effective results at extreme ranges. 12 gauge double barrel guns, with the exception of the "Trojan" are also available with 3 inch chambers for use with maximum long range heavy loaded shells. So chambered, Parker guns are guaranteed to handle these shells properly."

"Parker 10 gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 7/8 inch loads, but are also available with 3 1/2 inch chambers for use with maximum loads. No extra charge for a Parker Long Range Gun. Guns should never be used with shells longer than those for which they are chambered. See table of complete specifications on page 34."

So in 1937 Parker said not to use 2 3/4" shells in 2 5/8" chambers............

[Bill Murphy]

"For which they were chambered" means 2 5/8" chambers for 2 3/4" shells or 2 7/8" chambers for 3" shells. The statement you refer to is not meant to be a warning because Remington literature clarifies the length of chambers to be shorter than the shell by 1/8".

[George M. Purtill Member #28]

The Remington 3 inch guns would be the only ones I would trust.i have seen this gun and so has Dean. Straight grip VHE with original SSBP. Fantastic wood like an Ilion Parker.

1-1/2 frame
30 inch barrels
4 pound unstruck

[ED J, MORGAN]

Measure your un fired 2 3/4 " shells . They are less length. so are ok for 2 5/8 chambers in 12 ga.

[Bill Murphy]

Charlie, my Lefever sleeved mag ten handles as well as can be expected. It was originally a twelve that lettered as a ten pound three frame.

[Stan Hillis]

Originally Posted by ED J, MORGAN

Measure your un fired 2 3/4 " shells . They are less length. so are ok for 2 5/8 chambers in 12 ga.

The length of unfired shells is not what is important in the discussion of how long a shell was meant to be used in a chamber. It is the fired length that matters. When the crimp unfolds, if it goes too far into the forcing cone, it becomes a restriction to the forward progress of the payload, and tears at the case mouth. Pressures rise significantly when that occurs.

That said, most 2 3/4" shells I have measured don't even measure a full 2 3/4" when fired, which is what actually matters. They don't protrude far enough into the forcing cones to be a problem. Each person should measure for themselves to determine this, on the load they are interested in using. Just because most of them are short enough doesn't mean all of them are.