VH 20 cut barrel

Weston Croft · 12-02-2009, 06:18 PM

I just received a VH 20 #105771 from Galazan that was described as 26" with skt/skt chokes. That # is not in the serialization book but there were a lot of 26" VH made around that period. As it turns out, the barrels are 25 7/8, the wavy rib lines run to the end of the muzzle, and by their own brass gauge the chokes are cylinder. Oh yeah, it's also clearly butt heavy when balanced on the pin. Other than that, it's a delightful little 6lb package.

I intend to send it back but I just had to ask if there is any way those barrels aren't cut?

Autumn Daze · 12-02-2009, 06:33 PM

Weston,Could you post some photo's of the muzzles?

Bruce Day · 12-02-2009, 07:03 PM

1. You know at the outset that a 1901 gun is extremely unlikely to have correct Sk and Sk chokes. You know its either bored out or cut from 28's to have those chokes. Most guns from that period had 3-4" choke constrictions, so if they are cut 28's, you should have some choke.

2. Although not in the SN book, you know at the outset that a research letter is available, and people often contact Mark ( tele from roster) to get the specs before they buy a gun. Get a research letter and then you will know.

3. Its not at all uncommon that barrels will have been dropped at some point and the muzzles dented. The muzzles are often ground ( dressed) to take out the dent. If the rib end has a very narrow end space, as many do, the space can be ground out. Look at the rib keels. Are they intact? Its not very difficult to grind out 1/16 or 1/8 to take out a dent. Even so, the keels should still be intact.

4. Butt heavy can be an indicator of cut barrels but not necessarily. Just as waterfowlers sometimes wanted muzzle heavy guns, upland game hunters sometimes wanted butt heavy for a fast swing. I have one like that. Not all Parkers were balanced at the hinge.

Weston Croft · 12-02-2009, 07:21 PM

I was suspicious of the skeet chokes but hoped that they were a result of being opened which I find desirable. I also expected that if cut, Galazan would say so.
Anyway, here are the pics and thank you for your opinions:

Bruce Day · 12-02-2009, 07:25 PM

Cut.

Look at the barrel ends. They should touch.

You can see the inner ends of the keels.

The rib is way wide of normal at the end.

I'm cautious about stating something which is debatable or hinges on being able to see the gun in person, but there is no question that these are cut.

Cut barrels and cylinder bores does not necessarily mean the gun has no purpose to a grouse hunter or skeet shooter, some prefer it. So a person has to ask themselves if the price is right and they want the gun.

Greg S. Phillips · 12-02-2009, 07:41 PM

Non disclosure of cut barrels warrants a return, and refund of your return shipping. Nothing wrong with a cut barrel gun, but failure to disclose this is poor practice by any seller. This should include individuals or dealers.

Setter Man · 12-02-2009, 07:42 PM

Regarding the use of a brass bore gauge from Galazan, I have been told that they will not accurately measure Parker chokes because the actual chokes end too far down from the muzzle. any truth to that?

Weston Croft · 12-02-2009, 07:58 PM

I don't know about that but I have tried the gauge on an 870, 1100, and Merkel sxs, and in none of those cases did it agree with the stamped choke. My guess is that it is best used as a sort of yes/no gauge as a choke indicator.

Dean Romig · 12-02-2009, 11:10 PM

Weston, there are surviving factory records on Parker No. 105771 to support a Research Letter. You may find that your gun went back to the factory to either cut or trim/dress the barrels. The keels are in tact and look like original or a very skilled professional job. I don't think anybody's trying to fool anybody. There are plenty of Parkers out there with documented factory-cut barrels. Even if a letter can't support the shortened barrels - do you like the gun the way it is? Will it serve your intended purposes? Knowing that the barrels are not the same length as the gun was regulated with, will he allow you to check it's POI on a pattern board? Maybe it's a keeper after all...

Bruce Day · 12-03-2009, 08:51 AM

See TPS pp. 199, 201 and figures for cut end explanation.

The keels are long, tapering, triangular inserts. When "intact" a person sees only the end face of the keels fully filling the opening between the barrels and the ribs. As the keel is cut back, more of the solder shows between the keels and the ribs/barrels, and you often see little wedges inserted in the space also. The keels I have seen were 3 or so inches long, so the barrels would have to be cut at least that not to have any keels left at all. The keels are inserted at manufacture to regulate and position the barrel ends.

That said, I am not a barrel rebuilder nor a barrel cutter, and maybe somebody who as actually taken barrels apart has a different/better explanation. I have seen plenty of barrels with the ribs removed for relaying.