thanks
less powder and better patterns is a long standing general rule-
my goal is to get those old patterns at the longer range with Nice Shot and perhaps Bismuth
and my goal has never been to get nose bleeds
back in the lead pre-steel days my long range load out my doubles was a Remington express load- 1 1/4 #4 for geese and big ducks - #6 over decoys
i still have a few #4's left- they are saved for troublesome varmints -out of of a full choke they will end the marauding of a large racoon at a real distance