Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums

Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums (https://parkerguns.org/forums/index.php)
-   Shotgun Shell Reloading (https://parkerguns.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   PRIMER PUNCTURED BY FIRING PIN (https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24266)

Christian Gish 05-17-2018 12:10 AM

PRIMER PUNCTURED BY FIRING PIN
 
In the last lot of Win 209 primers I've had several primers punctured by the firing pin on 2 different guns. I've used Win 209 primers for 40 years and haven't had the problem before. Do you think they changed to thinner brass on the primers?

Anyone else having this happen?

Paul Harm 05-17-2018 09:49 AM

I use Cheddites and people have complained about the same thing. I have only one gun that pierces the primers, and that's with only the right barrel. Win might have changed primer material or thickness, but this is the first I've heard of it with Win primers. I go on three different forums every day and one is just reloading. No one else has commented about this problem.

Tom Carter 05-17-2018 12:06 PM

Primers
 
I recently had a number of primer punctures will RST 16 gauge shells. I think it is caused by thin primer metal. Tom

Dean Romig 05-17-2018 12:39 PM

I too have had pierced primers with cheddites/RST's but only with a couple of my hammer guns - never with a Parker hammerless.





.

Paul Harm 05-17-2018 01:31 PM

Yes, my Parker hammer gun also.

Harold Lee Pickens 05-17-2018 01:31 PM

I get pierced primers occasionally also--and come to think of it, seems to be with hammer guns and my reloads. I use W209 and cheddite primers interchangably, so dont recall if it was more with one or the other. I thought that perhaps I occ. didnt get the primer seated deep enough. Does this cause a problem/danger?

Dean Romig 05-17-2018 01:37 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Gas escaping through the firing pin port in the breech face can cause enough pressure to blow chunks out of your stock head.

W&C Scott's Patented Gas Check System was apparently invented for just this problem.

Illustrated is a Grade 6 which had this done to it by a Cleveland, Ohio gunsmith early in the last century.


.

Rick Losey 05-17-2018 01:42 PM

Interesting

I recently had new swivel/links made for a hammergun's locks - non Parker

The first two shots after the repair -with 12ga factory RSTs - had pierced primers.

I cannot see how that repair could have altered the impact - maybe chedditte primers have actually gotten thinner recently - although I fired the rest of that box from a Fox with no issues

Dean Romig 05-17-2018 01:55 PM

Illustration just posted to my previous post.





.

Christian Gish 05-18-2018 12:35 AM

In the original post, I was shooting a Parker hammerless 12ga GH. The escaping gas blew a chip off the top of the stock starting at the breech and extending about 2 inches back along the top tang.

I was shooting alone on 16yd. station one. I was lucky to find the chip on the far side of station 3 at the 20 yd. line.

William Davis 05-18-2018 09:30 AM

I have had several pierced primers with RST 10 G shells, all Cheddites. Never with Win 209s

However pierced is something I see in single shot rifles. I shoot a CPA Stevens 44 1/2 reproduction. The hammer strike is externaly adjustable, switch barrel with 3 different calibers and I run two with large pistol primers one with large rifle primers. Complicated.

Thing I have learned is there is a relationship between pressure, hammer strike, firing pin shape, protrusion and the primer itself. Any one going too far they will pierce. CPA added a gas escape hole in the breech block, original Stevens did not have them, to route escaping gas. Same idea as the Parker photo Dean posted.

If they are piercing something should be changed, I would have a good Parker man check all the gun possable causes, since Win 209 primers don’t have a soft reputation. Escaping gas through the pin hole can cause a lot of problems.

Having said all that manufacturers will always look for ways to cheapen products primers no exception.

William

Paul Harm 05-18-2018 09:32 AM

Guys with Browning O/U's complain Cheddites will pierce and cause burnt firing pins and thay have to replace them. Boy, that would have to be a lot of gas to blow off a piece of stock. Maybe the stock had a small crack you hadn't noticed.

Scot Cardillo 05-18-2018 09:49 AM

There are several things that can occur during the manufacture of a primer that could lead to pierced primers. The most likely culprit, if it is in fact a fault of the primers, would be an improper temper of the strip stock used to produce primer cups. I can't imagine Olin would reduce the thickness of their strip stock to save fractions of pennies.

Many things can go wrong if the manufacture of primer components are not closely controlled with an eye on consistency.

Scott Janowski 05-18-2018 12:26 PM

I have had problems with Cheddites piercing on guns that hit the firing g pin on an angle.
On a gun like my 1100 or Model 12 that hit straight on, no problems.

William Davis 05-18-2018 02:08 PM

Effect gas blowing back through the hole depends a lot on the fit, hole to pin. Standard modification old Single Shot rifles is to bush the pin hole and fit up a new pin close. Effect of a blown primer with smokeless powder in Trapdoors, Rolling Blocks, other falling block actions with large firing pins and loose fit in the block can be dramatic.

Shotguns operating at lower pressure probably less, but loose fits lots of gas can cause real problems.

William

Paul Harm 07-02-2018 11:54 AM

I just bought a Grade 3 1873 Remington hammer lifter and shot a round of SC's. Both barrels pierced the Cheddite primers every time. This is a first. So I load up a 100 Federal papers with Federal primers. Bada boom, bada bing, it solved everything. No pierced primers. Let's see, I have 8000 Cheddites, 400 Federals, and 400 Winchester primers. Once the Cheddites are used up I may go to just Winchester or Federal primers. There's about a $25/5000 difference in price. Or just buy 1K of the Federals.

John Campbell 07-02-2018 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Harm (Post 247328)
Once the Cheddites are used up I may go to just Winchester or Federal primers. There's about a $25/5000 difference in price. Or just buy 1K of the Federals.

If I were you, I'd think twice about using up those Cheddites. Why? Because you're looking at thousands of possibly pierced primers, crud blown back into your action and a potentially cracked stock head from the pressure vent.

But it's your gun. Your money. And your Cheddites.

Jerry Harlow 07-02-2018 08:19 PM

I thought the same thing about blow back in a hammer gun piercing primers until someone pointed out to me the blow back can't get to the head of a stock on a hammer gun to crack it.

Dean Romig 07-02-2018 09:27 PM

True Jerry, but the blowback flash can travel back through the plunger channels toward the shooter's face.





.

John Campbell 07-03-2018 09:43 AM

Message deleted.

Paul Harm 07-03-2018 10:07 AM

Out of the 20 or so SxS's I own only the 1873 and one Parker hammer guns right side pierce the primers. I'm not worried about blow back. I wear shooting glasses. How many times has anyone heard of a shooter being injured from blow back ? I wasn't relating the story for a safety lesson, only to comment about Cheddite primers. There are 25 or so guys at my club who order reloading supplies about four times a year. All but one or two guys order 5000 Cheddites, and no one else has had a problem with blown primers. I've gone through over 60,000 Cheddites without a problem. It's only now with one gun that's giving me a problem. I could take down the firing pins a bit, but naw, it's not worth the trouble. I'll just use Federal or Winchester primers. I'd like to thank everyone for their concern about my safety but I'll be ok. Paul

Scott Janowski 07-04-2018 08:25 AM

I have trouble with Cheddites pericing on my Kolar O/U. The firing pins hit the primer at an angle and I think Cheddites can’t handle this. I have no problems with Winchester’s or Remington’s.
I have no problems with the same load with Cheddites in my 1100, the primer strike is straight on with that.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:43 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2023, Parkerguns.org