O Frame vs 1 Frame Question
 

I've never owned a 1 frame Parker so let's say you picked up an O frame 16 by the receiver in one hand and a 1 frame 16 with the other hand.

Can you personally feel a noticable difference in the size of the receivers ?

Thanks

At the risk of sounding flippant (and I do not intend to do so) it depends on how much the gun weighs. Not all O frame 16s are "light" and not all 1 frame guns are heavy. If the guns are unaltered, they are generally well balanced and carry well. I have 2 1 frames that weigh just north of 6 lbs. and two 0 frames that are nearly the same weight. My DH 16 built on a 1 frame has 26 inch barrels, and it carries in one hand really well (it's one of my go-to grouse guns). It's a little bit heavier than the others, but is nicely balanced and quick to mount.

If you are referring strictly to feeling a difference in the width, perhaps but I doubt it. The width is what: 1/8” or 1/16” inch?

Jay,

You are correct ... I was referring to the size difference of the receivers.

Sorry for my poor reading of your post. I can both see and feel the difference in my O frame and 1 frame 16s. It's subtle, but recognizable. I think the difference between the 2 and 1 frame 12s is even more apparent to the hand.

The svelte look and feel of the "next size down" is appealing. Does it kill more birds or break more clays...in my experience, yes.

The receiver on a 0 frame is more svelte to my eye.

I haven't seen that many but most of the 16's I have seen on the 0 frame just seem to have had a little extra attention. My VHE has really very pretty straight grain wood and it just fits as well as any double I own. I wonder if that was not a special order in most cases.

Here is a comparison between a 1 frame 16 and 0 frame 16. Both from 88,000 sn range. The 1 frame has the refinished barrels and is on the bottom in the first picture and the right in the second picture

The letters I have on my lighter frame guns (only 0 frame 16s and 1 frame 12s) do not show any special requests for a light gun, but they do indicate the weight. I'm sure that there was more to ordering than shows up in the letters, but there has never been a frame size noted in any letter I've received, nor have I read of such references on this site (at least to my feeble minded recollection).

Parker had its ideas about gun weight and stuck to them, at least within the boundaries of those ideas, even when accommodating special requests for lighter guns. There are documented cases where Parker refused to go too light (in their estimation) in building a gun.

Having noted this, I am still amazed at what the barrel strikers could do to lighten a gun and still maintain that "Parker balance."

Comparing similar off the shelf guns, 28 inch Trojans, 1 frame 16 vs O frame 20, the difference is immediately noticeable. Measuring or weighing they are very close, your eye easy to see.

Same gauge it’s noticeable too. I have a 12 G 30 inch 1 frame racked beside 12 G 30 inch 2 frame. Difference is obvious.

Take it a step further S&W made many frame sizes. In the small guns, I Frame next to a J frame, measured they are less than 1/8 inch apart in every dim. Eye or hand notices it right away.

Your eye is very perceptive, hand more so.

William

I have a first day Pre-34, and a 34, and you are correct, in that the hand notices the subtle size difference.

Karl I fondled a few last evening. The difference is in the eye and not so much in the hand IMO when it comes to the feel speaking in terms of frame size only and not weight differences.

Not a great photo, but you can see relative frame size. From left to right: 2 frame 12, 1 frame 12, 0 frame 20, 000 frame 28. All straight stocked guns except the 28 gauge.

Is the 000-frame 28 a Repro?





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No such thing as a 000-frame Repro.

Not in 28 gauge but there is in .410...

Further, to the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as a 000-frame 28 gauge original Parker.





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Are you sure about that?

The 28 gauge is an original Parker. Maybe it is an 00 with lightening cuts, now that you mention it. If they never made a 28 000, then it's an 00 with lightening cuts. Sorry! I should know better than use my memory with this crowd of experts. Didn't mean to misrepresent something, but was only trying to show the "visual" differences.

But, to Dean's point, is it on a 000-frame?

Yes, again, only to the best of my knowledge.





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Here are PGCA Research Letters on two VH 16-gauge guns.

The 1907 0-frame has an Order Book No. 74 “requested” weight of 6 ¼ to 6 ¾ pounds.

The 1925 1-framed gun the Stock Book No. 75 “specifies” a 6 pounds 8 ounces gun.

On my postal scale I am looking at about 6 ¼ pounds for the 0-frame and 6 ¾ for the 1-frame, so ½ pound difference.

Karl: I discern a visual difference in the two receivers, and slight weight difference overall.

As for balance, no difference; maybe because the two-inch longer barreled 1-frame has barrels struck more “flared” (or swamped?)-looking toward the breach.

Alfred’s postulate about “a little extra attention” with the 0-frames motivated me to compare the two guns in that regard. The 0-frame wood is without question reasonably interesting on both sides; and the 1-frame definitely less interesting on the left side and very plain on the right.

I exact additional dividends from my gun purchases when these questions are raised. Thanks.

I see that the 0-frame gun weighs at exactly the minimum of the requested weight range and the 1-frame gun comes in 4 ounces above the maximum of the requested weight range - so, it seems to me they both should have been made on the 0-frame.





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