Recoil Pad Installation - How to suggestions please
 

I have ordered a Hawkins recoil pad and would like to do the installation myself when I receive the Trojan 20 ga just purchased. I don't have a belt sander which I believe most 'smiths' use in shaping the pad to fit the butt stock. Nor do I have access to one. Is it possible to take one down with rasp/file and then final sanding by hand? Any suggestions? I really would prefer to do this myself.

Or bite the proverbial bullet and buy a belt sander.

i can't see a rasp or file leaving a good finish on the pad, maybe with a lot of hand sanding towards the end

for the cost of the second pad you'll need if it doesn't work- you can probably get a small belt sander from a place like Harbor Freight

Probably more economical to buy one than to come get mine in Canton but your welcome to borrow it or the small bench belt sander from Harbor Freight. I think the HF was only 40.00or so. Wish i could have made up my mind on that Trojan sooner but i'm sure it's in good hands.

I think I'll just bite the bullet and pick up a small belt sander. Any recommendations on what grit belt(s) to start and finish with and also when it's sanded down flush with the butt, is there any finish and/or sealer that I should apply to the pad? Or just leave it be.

Thanks Dan. I'm going to pick up a sander although Canton isn't that far away. My aunt and grandmother lived in Canton on the corner of Bailey St and Messenger right across from the pond. It was the original Capen homestead. Many visits there growing up and many fond memories. Also, while I grew up in Dedham, Ma, we hunted the Neponsett meadows for grouse, pheasant, woodcock and occasional ducks. Oh, what memories. Thanks again for your reply. and to all

What a small world it is.I know that house across the corner from Russel's near the Dickey house.Hunted the meadows and all over town. What a different world it was then.

That's right. Dick Russell (Russell Oil?)lived on the opposite corner. The coverts I hunted as a young boy and man up there unfortunately no longer exist. The covert that we called Rust Craft is now built up, the coverts in Westwood are now housing developments, as is the end of Greenlodge St (where I grew up) is all housing now. What a shame but I still have many good memories. My very first double on grouse was as a 16 year old and hunting one Saturday morning behind the Norwood Airport and 3 hrs before a scheduled H.S. football game! If Coach Dorrington knew that his captain of the football team was bird hunting before our games, he would have shot me! OMG. What memories. What say you and I get together this Fall for a shoot at Markover or Addieville?

Without a proper sander (i suggest a 12" diameter radius sander) and also a recoil pad grinding jig, i see you having a difficult time in doing a prper installation.

Allen will there be an April shoot at Addieville? If so i hope to make it. Your first double was it on the Gibbons estate? My only double was there in 63.It was Russel oil.Look forward to meeting you.

April 9th, click the calendar button at the top of this page for details.

Allen will there be a shoot at Addieville in April? If so hope to make it and put faces to a lot these names. Was your double on the Gibbons estate? My only one was there in 63.It was russell oil. Look forward to meeting you.

Brian, thanks, I went on line and brought up a YouTube video of how to install a recoil pad and did see the jig, et al. I'll just have Dan Cullity install it. He's local and a terrific smith'.

Dan, I plan on being at Addieville for the April 9 Fun Shoot. Hope we meet then, Re: my first double on grouse. It was on the Westwood side of the Norwood Airport and off Canton St. I believe.

Wise decision, Allan. How many times have you seen a gun, with a freshly installed recoil pad, and noticed the wood is significantly lighter for about 2" forward of the pad? All it takes is one tiny slip up, and you've gone too far.
It's always wise to wrap a layer of masking tape around the stock, and do your power sanding up to the tape, then hand finish till you've gotten it flush.

Absolutely correct Edgar. While it's a rather simple process and installation, without the right tools including the jig, it just doesn't make much sense for to do it with what will likely only be a one off application. Dan Cullity is a pro and has done much work for me in the past and it's worth having Dan do it. Being retired now, I find myself looking for 'stuff to do'. This won't be one of them

Seriously? I Have been retired for 13 years and I'm still waiting for the day I don't have stuff to do.

Edgar, when Jean,my wife, was battling cancer for 4 years, most of my projects took a back seat as I was focused on her care and welfare. Her death left a gaping hole in my life that I am slowly but surely filling up with stuff to do around the house as well as become more involved in community and church related activities. Just was elected to our church vestry and in another week I'll be a member of our Plymouth Rotary. So, slowly but surely I'm gaining some traction again.

Almost forgot, the English setter pup that I've ordered will be my summer project!

My Dad used to tell me "When Life bucks you off, you climb back on again."
You, Allen, are an inspiration.

Here's a pad I installed myself about fifteen years ago. It came out very well, I thought.




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Years ago I bought a 12" disk sander and what I call the "J" style jig that attaches to the sander. Here is a picture of the first recoil pad I made. No comments please about the KickEzz pad, I have the original DHBP to put back on if needed. The challenges were the curved butt and the widow's peak. I tried heating the pad and letting it cool hoping it would prevent a gap when the pad was mounted but I couldn't make it work so I cut a plug out of the center of the pad, installed a screw and put the plug back in. For the widows peak, I mounted the uncut pad, put plenty of release agent around the wood and made a dam around where the widow's peak would be. I also drilled small holes in the pad and inserted small pins. I injected black dyed Accraglass into the void with a syringe body and hoped for the best. After it cured, the pad was put on the jig and finished the normal way. You'd never know the widow's peak wasn't part of the pad originally.

Dean and Chuck, what can I say, very nice work indeed.

Thats the place,an industrial park now. there was an area that had the biggest hemlock trees i have ever seen.See you in April.

Dean, that must be a Remington Era gun. Wonderful wood!

Dan, that is the place! I can't tell you how many grouse and woodcock I took out of the covert! It was one of my 'go to' places.

Nope... It is a Damascus barreled 12 ga. GH made in 1903 on a 1 1/2 frame. It was really one of my early mistakes but I bought it for $400 without a forend and the butt plate was missing. The screws were a mess, the cyanide colors made it look like the unfortunate child of a zebra and a tiger. The Damascus barrels were blued and the word Damascus on the rib was obliterated. The barrels were originally 30" and were cut back to 27". It was a fabulous skeet gun though. I sent the barrels to Dale Edmonds and I bought an aftermarket forend for a 2-frame gun that never fit very well but served the purpose.

But that was the original wood! Some of the best I've ever seen on a grade 2.



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Brian, what's you opinion of fitting a pad, on the gun, with some tape on the wood?

You talking to me bill?

Yes, I would like to know what you think of that method.

Well, sort of. I would not recommend using any sort of power equipment on the pad while it is attached to the stock. Too many chances of things to go wrong.

What i do is true up the base of the pad since most are not flat from the start. I attach the pad to the stock, get the outline of the stock by scribing it with a sharp awl or something of the sort. Remove the pad. Sometimes the line is plenty visible as is or it may help to use something to show it off. I like to use the blue chalk line chalk. Just sprinkle it on and rub it into the line to show it better.
I then mount the pad to a grinding jig. I use a miles gilbert jig. I use a T-bevel to get the angle of the toe and heel in order to set the jig to for grinding. I use a 12" radius sander for grinding. I grind the toe and around the sides half way up first and then i set angle for the heel and do that end. I grind up to the line and not past it.
I then remount the pad. Usually there is about enough to catch your fingernail on after grinding. It is at this time that i do use 3M painters tape on the wood and use strips of polishing cloth to bring down what is left by hand. The blue 3M tape holds up well to sanding on it and it flexes nicely for curved butts.

The type of pad plays a big role here since some hand finish nicer than others. The bases are all about the same, but the rubber part can be problematic when hand sanding. Most of the vintage style pads finish well on their sides.
Sometimes you then have to finish the back with plugs as wih a silvers pad. The strips of polishing cloth work well here. Also wet sanding with oil will get a smooth finish at the end. For back finishing, personally using the Silvers number 3 pads thag CSMC sells. The back and the corners shape and sand VERY well. Their cheaper "period correct" pad does not sand very well on the face.

I hope this information helps some. Again, this just what i do. It does not mean it is right or wrong. Just what i do and what i have found to work well.

I have simplified the whole process and have had Brian install my pads.Perfectly done every time! No worries about damaging the stock finish.

Another note is that pads can be mounted to curved stocks. Some pads are more flexible than others. I have found that the silvers pads flex pretty well. I have been able to get kick-eez pads on curved stocks also. But, sometimes, the curve in stocks is just too extreme to get the pad to pull down fully in the middle. And sometimes the location of the screw holes can be important on a curved stock. One sikvers pads, i aleays use washers that fill the entire plug hole as to allow for a more even application of pressure on the pad base. This really helps with curved stocks.

The toe and heel angles need to be roughed in while mounted on the stock since it will all change when removed.

Obviously curved stocks complicates things. And also the additon and fitting of large spurrs on a plate add to the complicstions as well.

Brian, I found that using a pointed object for the scribed line can possibly chip the stock finish at the end of the stock. I put blue painters tape on the bottom of the pad, mount the pad and use a fine pen to make the outline. Remove the pad, cut off excess tape and grind to the line. The sander sands the tape along with the pad and it makes seeing the line easy.

Good advice from Brian.

Another note is that if you are making a new stock or refinishing an old stock where sanding of the butt is involved. it is a good method to grind the pad down close as i previously described and then do the final finishing of the pad when on the stock and also sanding the wood. Using a sanding block. This will provide an even surface from wood to pad.

This will also work best if using a pad that sands well by hand, such as the silvers and some of the other vintage pads.

A lot of modern pads do not finish too well by hand. Kick-eez pads finish great in the power grinding phase and finish ok by hand. Pachmyer pads are not all that great and limbsaver pads or horrible. Using oil for lubricant can help.

I'm going to have Dan Cullity install the new Hawkins pad that I have received. Talked with Dan the other day and going to bring to 20 ga Trojan that I just purchased from Mark Kircher to Dan tomorrow. Will also have Dan remove the frame from the stock and give it a good cleaning, the safety slides very sluggishly and I suspect there's a bit of crud or whatever built up. Neither Mark nor I believe the frame has been off the stock for many years so a good cleaning is in order and prudent. I'll be able to take the stock home along with the forend and strip it in acetone and give it a good finish. Eventually I'll have Brad re-case color this Trojan so when I give it to my second grandson he'll have what will look like a new gun and will appreciate it even more (of course after Papa explains the facts of life about proper gun handling and gun care.) I found my old belt sander that I earlier thought was long gone (it still works) but without the bracket I don't dare trying to take down the Hawkins pad. Hence Dan will do it. I want to thank everyone who contributed to this threat that I started and especially Brian who's advice and guidance to all the contributors has been spot on.

Don't Try This At Home
 

I realize Bill's question was directed towards Brian, but was regarding a tape method I described, so Yesterday's outing was timely.
Walter Eisserer completed an 8 (EIGHT) year apprentice program in Austria, before coming to the US, to spend 20 years with Griffin & Howe (and concurrently working at Continental Arms on weekends) and then worked for Gary Herman for 15 years, until Safari Outfitters closed in Ridgefield, CT. I put Walter in the Judson Darrow, Joe Jurjevic category. Sadly, he is closing up and moving to way-upstate NY to live with his son. I can't image how long it will take him to pack up his shop.

The installation of the pad, shown in the photos, took less than 15 minutes, from the first picture to the last picture. This pad was then coming off the gun for a full pigskin cover. In the case of pads not leather covered, it goes on once, and is not removed for hand work. This works for Walter because of his experience, but may not be true of all.

As Chuck stated, Walter also uses a disc sander. Note this machine, in the pictures is not what you see today, as it has no table, just a guard at the bottom edge of the wheel. He bought this machine from Continental when they closed. As he stated, the only good method, and tool to use is one where you can see the stock and the tool at the same time. Using a belt sander means either the tool is blocking your view of the point where it is sanding the stock, or, if the belt sander is clamped with the belt on the upper side, the stock is blocking the view. Likewise, using a powered, vertical belt sander, means the stock is still between you and the belt, and you can not see how close you are getting.
Using a disc sander, where you are able to look at the stock - tool interface is Walter's only method, though he says you can use a vertical belt, if you stand to the side of the machine. Notice that he holds the stock in both hands, and does not rest the stock on the machine's table.

He took the pad ( Packmeyer is his choice only when they get covered in pigskin) right down to the taped surface, then hand sanded, starting with 120, and going to 400.

The gun he was doing, and the other of a pair, were $30,000 worth of Perrazis, but he had two Hollands on the bench to do next. He explained that when he does pads, he does all at the same time, and had, that I could count, eight to do that day.

What I've described, and shown, is one man's method, and doesn't make another man's method better or worse. That I believe he is the most skilled gunsmith I have ever been permitted to watch (for many hours, and over a 40 year span) has nothing to do with it.

Thanks Edgar, interesting. I know Craig Libhart does it the same way but these guys have years of experience.

I recently tried another way to get the pad fitted to the butt after getting it close to the final shape. Once it's close, I mounted the pad and used electrical tape on the wood. Hand sanding with a block is difficult and time consuming and trying to get the hard plate of the pad down to the wood without cutting through the tape and scratching the stock is difficult. What I did was loosen the screws of the pad enough that I could insert a spacer of maybe 1/4" and tighten the screws to the spacer. That left a gap where I could sand the hard pad of the stock at a slight angle with the sanding block. Just bevel a little at a time, take the block out and check the fit. Keep doing this until it matches. Worked like a charm!

Chuck, your method makes good sense. Walter has way more confidence (and guts) than I ever could have and takes the pad down to with a few thousands of an inch, and does only a few minutes of hand sanding. He has a new tape that he bemoans not having been invented till he decided to fully retire. It is some space age material that resists sanding abrasion, so he can actually sand right on top of it.
My dad and I spent alternating Thursday nights going to Safari, and those nights, Walter also worked till the 8pm closing (often even later) One particular night my dad took back an upgraded two barrel Parker that started life as a VHE 28, but ended up a John Warren highly engraved 28, with a Joe Jurjevic set of 38-55WCF barrels. My dad merely mentioned he might have liked the gun more if it was a straight stocked gun (he never even shot the rifle barrels) Walter disappeared with the receiver, went down stairs and ran it thru the bandsaw, and by closing had a shaped, checkered, and one coat of finish. He had also extended the trigger bow, and only needed to blue that.
Part of his work in Ferlach was hand making springs for sidelocks. He did a wonderful job reworking the locks on my 26" grade two, and has promised to do the same to my 30". Those springs are like butter.

I have correspondence between me and Joe Jurjevic about doing the rifle conversion on my 28 gauge Parker, probably from the seventies. He was quite the talent. We never agreed on the project. I remember ascending the stairway to the second floor at Continintal Arms when I was just a kid, but, unfortunately, never met any of the gunsmiths. I wonder if I ever met Edgar there? I wonder what happened to the John Warren, Joe Jurjevic 28 gauge Parker?

If you did, you would remember

I asked Gary one time and he couldn't remember. Probably it went into that black hole with my BHE 20

I meant to point out something that was very subtle, watching him work. Look closely, in the fourth picture, at his left thumb. Each time he wood put the stock to the wheel, he would keep the stock turning; never stopping in one spot until he took it away from the wheel. After each 'pass' he would check it for closeness with his thumb. He works so quickly and efficiently, it was hard to absorb it all in a single fitting. I didn't take anymore pictures after the first stock he worked on, but watched him do two more. I'm continually in awe when I get to watch a real craftsman.