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-   -   Eureka! (http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26539)

Reggie Bishop 02-15-2019 08:03 PM

Eureka!
 
https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...n_id=101181306


And the hinge pin is out of time!

:bowdown:

Mills Morrison 02-15-2019 08:21 PM

I love that gun although I am not sure what you would hunt with it

Dean Romig 02-15-2019 08:22 PM

I thought the Fleischman A1S was a 20 gauge two-barrel set...? Is there another?





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Mark Riessen 02-15-2019 08:23 PM

A-1 Spec.
 
Interesting that it only has one fence on the breech balls, but I am not that well versed on very high grade Parkers. Essentially a one off type of gun and any thing would be possible. Very interesting and beautiful. M

Reggie Bishop 02-15-2019 08:30 PM

Mills you take guns like that to barbecues and polo matches!

Mills Morrison 02-15-2019 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Romig (Post 266008)
I thought the Fleischman A1S was a 20 gauge two-barrel set...? Is there another?





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There is another Dean. I heard the 20 gauge was butchered by some second rate gunsmiths

Randy G Roberts 02-15-2019 08:41 PM

What can I say about that, that gun has just about everything that I could want. Well almost, except the price tag. Good spot Mark on the rib on the bolsters. The A1S typically has three. The word typically is the key.

Brian Dudley 02-15-2019 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Riessen (Post 266009)
Interesting that it only has one fence on the breech balls, but I am not that well versed on very high grade Parkers. Essentially a one off type of gun and any thing would be possible. Very interesting and beautiful. M



Gauges smaller than 20 have a single bead.

Dean Romig 02-15-2019 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy G Roberts (Post 266014)
Good spot Mark on the rib on the bolsters. The A1S typically has three. The word typically is the key.

Right Randy, except in the smaller gauges like 28... even in the 20 gauge A1S there are exceptions to the rule.





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Dean Romig 02-15-2019 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mills Morrison (Post 266012)
There is another Dean. I heard the 20 gauge was butchered by some second rate gunsmiths


I handled the 20 gauge when it was on display by Julia's at the Concours d'Elegance at the Vintager's event at Sandanonna about fifteen years ago.

It was "refinished" after it sold at Julia's auction and the next time it went to auction it sold for about half the amount it had previously sold for.
I will say though, it was a hard-used gun and could certainly have used a proper refinish/resto.





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todd allen 02-15-2019 09:00 PM

I need to strike oil on my property.

CraigThompson 02-15-2019 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mills Morrison (Post 266007)
I love that gun although I am not sure what you would hunt with it

If my pockets were deep enough to own that gun without any monetary worries I’d use it for dove , teal and I’d try trap .

Dave Noreen 03-05-2019 11:52 PM

It has been more correctly restocked and seriously "freshened" since it appeared in Larry Baer's 1976 book. Since this gun reappeared I've wondered why Larry didn't mention the Max Fleishmann connection? He mentioned Edwin Hedderly, Wah King Thom, Joan Bennett, Leland Hayward, etc. provenance for various guns he pictured in his books.

Eric Eis 03-06-2019 08:18 AM

Somebody correct me on this if I am wrong but isn't this one of Jim Parker's collection of A1's. I think I remember this gun when he displayed at the Louisville Gun Show when we had the annual meeting there.

Tommy Neely 03-06-2019 01:28 PM

Another question for the experts. Explain what is meant by “The Hinge Pin being Out of Time”? Is this simply that the pin slot is not aligned properly and does this effect the mechanics of the gun? How difficult is it to correct this problem? I’m curious as I’m considering buying a VHE with the same issue.

Dean Romig 03-06-2019 01:46 PM

Right Tom - the slot is not properly aligned. It indicates someone has had the gun apart and didn't pay particular attention to correctly reassembling it... which leads to other questions about the work done on the gun. I'm sure it is perfectly okay inside. On the subject gun, it is merely a cosmetic issue - the other screws are timed perfectly.





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Tommy Neely 03-06-2019 01:59 PM

Thanks Dean. Notice your a Setter Man. I’ve got three young English Setters, approaching 3 yrs old, out of Shaddow Oak Bo that I’m very proud of. All are pretty well broke ar 2 1/2 years, I can’t take the credit as that would go to a dear friend that is as good as I’ve seen training dogs. If I can locate a few pictures I will send them to you. If you aren’t familiar with Bo, he won the Grand National Championship at Ames Plantation back to in 2013 and 2014. First time an English Setter has done this since 1903.

Dean Romig 03-06-2019 02:05 PM

Yes, I'm familiar with Shadow Oak Bo's achievement. What a dog! It's great you have his pups.






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Gary Carmichael Sr 03-07-2019 10:59 AM

I believe that Jim Parker passed or sold this gun to one of his guys that helped him set up, I also think that the individual bit of more than he could chew, so it was sold to who I do not know, Gary

Dave Tatman 03-07-2019 11:07 AM

Not to derail the thread, but my ten month old English Setter, Beau, is out of Shadow Oak Bo's lineage, as well. He's a big boy - very tall, and is already developing into a fine bird dog.

Dave

Gary Laudermilch 03-07-2019 11:14 AM

There is a topic "Mans Best Friend". Post pictures there so we all can see. There are a bunch of setter guys here that would love to see them.

Dave Noreen 03-07-2019 12:49 PM

That hinge pin slot was out of time when the gun was pictured back in 1976.

Bill Mullins 03-08-2019 08:07 PM

The late Jim Parker owned the Fleischman 20 gauge two barrel set serial number 231774. It was auctioned by James Julia Company on October 6, 2005 along with all of his Parker collection.
Herschel Chadick originally acquired and owned the 28 gauge and sold it to a major Parker collector in the mid-west. It was featured, along with several other A1Specials in The Double Gun Journal, Volume 18, Issue 3, Autumn 2007, in an article “Parkers At The End Of The Rainbow”. All of those A1Specials were susbsequently sold to another major collector in Texas. 😊

Dave Noreen 03-08-2019 10:01 PM

Hard to swallow Herschel's caption "The gun is an all original Parker with a hinged front trigger." Is there a letter on this gun out there?

Mills Morrison 03-08-2019 10:10 PM

If I remember right, the Fleischman 20 gauge A 1 special was butchered at some point. Larry Baer said that, I think. Too bad, if true

Dean Romig 03-09-2019 12:16 AM

I don't remember anything about it being butchered prior to the Julia auction... "severely used" might better have described it then.

It was subsequently 'restored' and the next time it went to auction it brought a very significantly lower price.





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Dave Noreen 03-09-2019 11:54 AM

Larry's text with the 28-gauge A1 Special 234200 is "The mate to this gun (not shown) was a 20 ga. It was hideously ruined by an attempt to add gold inlays to the original engraving, and even worse was an attempt to remove the inlays and re-engrave the sides of the action. The result was the total ruination of a very precious original A-1 20 ga. gun."

Larry makes no mention of a Fleischman connection for either the 28-gauge he pictures or the 20-gauge he discusses.

Mills Morrison 03-09-2019 11:58 AM

Yep. That is what I remember

Dave Noreen 03-09-2019 01:30 PM

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...3E3C&FORM=VIRE

Dave Noreen 03-09-2019 01:54 PM

The text from the Julia's Auction of the Max Fleischman 20-gauge --

*ULTRA-RARE GOLD INLAID IDENTIFIED PARKER A1 SPECIAL 2 BBL SET DBL BBL SHOTGUN. Cal. 20 ga. SN 231774. Built on an “O” frame and known as the “Fleischman Parker”. This fabulous little shotgun has 32″ bbls choked FULL/FULL and 28″ bbls choked IMP-CYL/IMP-MOD. Both are marked “PEERLESS STEEL” and have tapered matted ribs, dbl ivory beads, doll’s head extensions, ejectors and it is fitted with dbl triggers. Receiver, trigger guard & top tang are fabulously engraved with nine gold inlays consisting of two flying geese on the left side, two flying pheasant on the right side, a cluster of five flower blossoms on the front end of the receiver & a spray of leaves & blossoms on the floorplate. Trigger guard has five gold blossoms. Serial number is in large gold letters at the end of the trigger guard & the top tang has a large “S” in gold. It is all surrounded by full coverage very fine tight arabesque patterns and the fences have three raised scallops around the back edge. Opening lever, top tang and forend iron are all engraved to match. Engraving extends 2-1/4″ up over the chambers on both sets of bbls. It is mounted in a spectacular, streaky marble cake, French walnut buttstock with wonderfully covered fleur-de-lis checkered raised side panels with pistol grip, 14-1/8″ over an old leather faced pad. Grip cap is inlaid with a gold-plate engraved “Max C. Fleischman” with some light arabesque patterns. Bbl forearm lugs are marked “1” and “2” with corresponding numbers on the forend irons.
Among Mr. Parker’s related correspondence is a letter dated Dec. 15, 2000 to Mr. Neal Hermsen of Lewisville, NC, wherein he requests that Mr. Hermsen fit “the 32″ bbls” to the gun and that he wanted the same serial number on each set. Apparently the 32″ bbls were originally numbered “212863” and were for a Grade 6 gun but had already been upgrade engraved to Grade 8. Also included is a repair order dated 12-15-2000 with shipping label to Mr. Hermsen listing this shotgun and the extra bbls. On another billhead dated 12-20-2000 is a note stating that the bbls have been received and that they were actually Grade 8, that they should be restored and refinish the wood. Another billhead to Mr. Hermsen dated 7-25-2001 mentions the bbls fitting and to refinish both bbls at a cost of $3,000.00. In addition there is a hand written noted dated 11-12-2001 instructing Mr. Hermsen to replace all of the inlays. And lastly, there is an invoice dated 11-30-99 from James W. King of Albany, Georgia to Mr. Parker selling him this shotgun in the amount of $42,500.00. There is a note, apparently in Mr. Parker’s handwriting that states “Came from Little John Auction.”

Anyone have the Little John catalog with this 20-gauge A1 Special?

Dean Romig 03-09-2019 02:03 PM

I might... what is the auction date. I have a collection of auction catalogs but I don’t have all of them.





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Dave Noreen 03-09-2019 04:48 PM

I'd guess it would have to be a 1998 or 1999 auction. Don't think Mr. King would have been sitting on it too long.

Dean Romig 03-09-2019 04:59 PM

I just checked my auction catalogs.

I have about 150 catalogs, mostly Julia’s and Amoskeag and a bunch of Devinne’s too with a few others in the mix bot not a single Little John’s among them.





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Mills Morrison 03-09-2019 05:33 PM

It is also featured in the video Parkers at the End of the Rainbow

Dean Romig 03-09-2019 05:41 PM

Right, but what does the Little John’s write-up say about it I wonder.





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Mills Morrison 03-09-2019 07:32 PM

I don't have that catalog

Kevin McCormack 03-09-2019 10:23 PM

This thread has become alternately confusing and suspicious to me - like Dean, I remember examining this gun at the Vintagers at Sandanona NY before it was "enhanced" by refinishing by Jim Parker prior to being auctioned with the rest of his collection upon his death, as noted by Bill Mullins. As Dean accurately noted, the gun was "used hard" and had lots of field wear (more about that later).

What confuses me is Dave's reference to Larry Baer's "ruination" comment In his 1976 book (which I don't have) about the destruction of a fine Parker. As I read it, there was no allusion to either Max Fleischmann or the gun being a 2-barrel set. We may be talking about 2 different guns here.

The reason I say that is because I dug back into my file of "notable" auction catalog pages (I don't save the whole catalog; only pages with guns that interest me and that I have a direct connection to), and I found the page description (still looking for the photos) which I am reproducing verbatim here. This is just the catalog description page I have, I don't know what auction company, date, or venue it represents.

The page entry reads: 60. The Max C. Fleischmann Parker A-1 Special 2 Barrel Set 20 Ga. Ejector Gun serial #231774, on 0 frame with seven magnificent gold inlays. One set of barrels 32' the other 28". Both barrels have ivory front bead sights and ivory mid bead sights, 32" barrels forend lug marked 1, 28" lug marked 2. Both splinter forends numbered to gun, 28" forend marked 2 over serial number. Both barrels marked Parker Bros. Makers Meriden CT. USA Peerless Steel, and engraved at breeches and muzzle in A1 Special Pattern and numbered to gun. The frame is floral bouquet engraved in A1 Special Pattern. The magnificent gold inlays are as follows, right side cock & hen pheasant in yellow gold, left side 2 mallard ducks in yellow & pink gold. Bottom forward 3 flowers, 2 buds in 3 color gold, bottom middle 6 flowers, 6 leafs in wreath yellow gold around pink gold medallion flower. Triggerguard has 5 flowers in 3 colors of gold. Serial number on triggerguard tang in gold. Gold pistol grip cap engraved Max C. Fleischmann around floral scroll engraving. This 2 trigger model has articulated front trigger both gold plated. The beautifully figured walnut stock and forends are superbly carved and checkered in relief A1 Special Fleur de Lis patterns. Factory leather faced solid rubber recoil pad and sling swivel eyes on 28" barrel and buttstock. This is just the way Max C. Fleischmann ordered the gun from Parker in 1928 according to the consignor. Max always said he received the gun from Parker just before the "Crash" in 1929.
The condition of the gun is sound, original and well used. Max kept this gun on his Hope Plantation in South Carolina and used it everday for quail and ducks when he was at the plantation hunting. The 32" barrels retain 85% original blue sound and bright bores. The 28" 90-95% original blue and bright bores. The receiver is in excellent silvery grey with no scratches or dings on engraving or gold inlays. Both forends are dark and have many handling bruises, but are sound and original. The buttstock retains 95% original finish. Checkering is worn, but sound and complete. Gold plating on triggers is about 50%.

Provenance: 1929-1951 Max C. Fleischmann
1951-1992 Inherited by Marion Sams
1993-1995 Inherited by Marion Sams Jr.

Marion Sams was the manager of Hope Plantation. Max. C. Fleischmann asked him which gun he wanted after his death. Marion chose this gun and Mrs. Fleischmann gave it to Marion in 1951 after Max's death. Comes with letter from consignor and book Gentleman in the Outdoors, A Portrait of Max C. Fleischmann by Sessions S. Wheeler. This book has a photo of Max with this shotgun. The gun is a great example of American Gun Making and Art! (Illustrated in Color on Front Cover) (109) (80,000/120,000)


Can anyone help clear this up?

Dean Romig 03-09-2019 11:30 PM

If there is any question of when the Fleischman 20 gauge A1-S had the two sets of barrels and their respective forends, when I examined it at Sandanona it had both sets.






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Bill Murphy 03-10-2019 07:55 AM

Jim Parker had a hard time leaving a good gun "as is". He had many guns refinished, and not done well.

Dean Romig 03-10-2019 08:20 AM

As I recall, and I don’t have my references in front of me, the first time it was auctioned by Julia's in its original ‘well used’ condition it sold (correct me if I’m wrong) in the $90-100k range and the next time it auctioned after having been “refinished” (finished in some collectors’ opinions) it sold in the $60-70k range.






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