Model 12 winchester 16 ga.
 

Have a chance to purchase a model 12 winchester 16 ga. Gun has been reblued ( hot blued ). The blueing at the muzzel has been damaged but the rest of the blueing looks nice. The but stock may be a replacement. Nice peace of wood but the finish dos'nt look correct. Price is 400.00. What do you think. Sorry I do not have pictures. Gun appears to be tight and functions fine.

Why would a non-member ask this question about a pump gun on the Parker Assn. forum regarding "other fine doubles." Or am I missing something?

Kensal

O' relax. Wayne this is a good question as long as the question has to do with classic guns in my book. The price sounds right wayne, if you are looking for a shooter i would reccomend buying the gun. It would make a great field gun, one question Wayne is it a takedown?

It would have to be a takedown as only 12s were made as non takedown (model 25s). Actually, the price is a bit high for a reblued 12. Up here in New York, you can find original, unrefinished 16 gauge guns for $300 to $350. These would be about 80 to 90percent guns.

The reason I asked this question on this forum was because vintage winchesters and ithica pumps often come up on this forum. Sorry' I did not intend to insault some PGCA members.

Wayne I would agree with Bill....if you are close to new York you should try the Syracuse gun show which is this coming weekend.The show is quite large and you would have several model 12's in 16 ga. to choose from.

Bill Z is right. There are plenty of original condition guns out there in much better shape than that one. Don't waste your time or money.

The gun as you describe it is worth $250 tops!! Keep looking.....

I passed on the gun. The only reason it caught my eyes was because it is a 16 ga. Unfortunatly I live in Alabama. I would be unable to make any east coast gun shows. The shows in this state are pretty small and the dealers think that their junk is gold. I would prefure a double anyway.

I have always had trouble getting rid of a 16 model 12 dont know why but thats life !

Wayne they used to have a few good shows in Birmingham you might want to check out.Good luck with your quest ...I had a model12 in 16ga with 26 in.barrels...it was a grouse meat gun.

Just had an auction here in Vermont and they had a slew of model 12s going quick to dealers in the $400 range. There are many 16s out there and you can have fun looking for a real good one at a good price. A very many of them are full choke.
Model 12 in 16 ga is a very sweet gun - and earns the title "The Perfect Repeater". The hand polishing throughout production really shows.
Passed on the family 16 to a nephew last month and will replace it soon. Have them in 12 and 20 ga. And the .410 (mod. 42) is the cats meow - earning the title "America's Sweetheart".
Good hunting.

I have not made a birmingham show yet. I am quite a bit south of them but I have been planning on checking them out. May be something in Montgomery. I am all the way on the south east side of al. close to columbus Goerga. The gun shows in columbus suck. Most of the dealers start way on the high side and don't even bother to negociate untill after they have had the gun for about a year. Their shows are nothing like the shows in louisville Ky or Portland Or.

I recently bought a Model 12 16 for $300. It was well used with no bluing remaining. I figure it was worth $300 to have a classic American shotgun in my collection . . . and in 16 gauge. Have still not shot it and plan on going to the clay range yet again this weekend with a Parker

Picked up a wonderful Model 12 16 gauge from a well respected PGCA member this year at the Southern. I needed one to go along with the 12 gauge. Now I need a 20....Damn this stuff never ends......:rolleyes:

For all you collectors remember the operative word here is "Need".....

I was wondering when you were going to chime in. "Well respected"? I would'nt go that far, but thanks anyway. You ready to sell it back yet?

Ahhhh...Let me think about it..................Well I thought about it..........Nope

If you run out of model 12s to collect you could start on model 97s. There only made in 12s and 20s. There is no sond as soothinf as racking the slide on a 97. ( or terifying for that matter).

Model 97's were made in 12 and 16 gauge. No 20's--although a few 20 ga. conversions are around. They are not factory guns!

My apologies.You are correct. I let my fingers get ahead of my brain.

M-12s
 

I traded off 4 M-12s (2 in 12 , a 20 and a 16) plus a M-42, a 62 A and a 61 to acquire the 32" DHE I showed awhile back. Those winchesters are great but I like the 32" Parker better and feel good about the exchange. I kept my M-12 trap just to have one and my son has a 16ga M-12 so we're still covered.
-plc-

I agree; too pricey. I paid $225 two years ago in a pawn shop for a 16 Model 12 with a replacement magazine. Very little finish on the receiver, full choke and a barrell that reaches way out there! Has an old recoil pad. Great bore and the gun works like new. So it's okay.

I just purchased a like new model 12, 1962 12 gauge modified for $465. That guns looks like it just came off of the showroom floor. Smooth as glass without a mark on it, original butt plate. I haven't even shot it yet! However, I bought that gun from Nosler and they aren't a shotgun place and they sort of dumped it. Someone had traded it in on a rifle.

My favorite one is a Nickle Steel 12 that has nearly turned silver. A 1923 gun. Here it is: http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/P1010576.jpg

I paid under $300 for this shotgun.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/P1010577.jpg

Pretty nearly worn silver. This gun was two years old when my father was born. I like old "I've been there" guns. Sometimes you have to spend some $ on them. I had some work done on this, but it is wonderful today.

Yep sounds like you are covered.

I like Model 12s because they are all steel and if all of the springs and bits inside are okay they work well. I own several modern shotguns that have alloy receivers, a Browning Gold Fusion and Win Model 59 (not all that modern) and like them for field work, but when shooting clays, skeet, trap I find a heavier steel gun balances better and is not as whippy.

I think pumps may come back. When autos became reliable (even tho my Model 11 works very well) they pretty much replaced pumps. But pumps are neat.

A friend once described shooting a Model 12 is like driving a standard shift. So when I feel like driving a stick shift I use a Model 12.....:rotf:

I want to say something about the price of guns and if you are afraid to pay too much. All of us have passed up on guns that we wanted because we thought they were too expensive, and then changed our mind about about 2am, and went back the next day to buy it, and it was gone.

I've done this many times. I have even returned guns the next day because I thought that they were "wrong" and then, after I turned them back, I found out that they were right, but not in my safe anymore.

So, if you are buying guns and you see one that makes you sweat, then buy the darn thing. Even if you pay too much, you still have the gun and as the years pass you will forget what you paid and enjoy it.

I hate to list all of the really great deals that I have passed on....really, really, great deals. That "Do you really need another" look from my wife is a killer too. We are not rich and guns are expensive.

Today I have a collection that gives me literally thousands of hours of joy. So I'm happy I bought what I did. I just wish that I had not turned back in that Colt SAA 1902 second model, in 38 Special, nickle plated in perfect condition with ill fitting stocks! I thought it was wrong...cost was $800. It was a steal, it locked up like new, mint bore.....I let it go. Sorry, I need a drink.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Now, what do you do when there are about 3 you really want? :rolleyes:

Well, I'll tell you. Sometimes I buy more than one at a time, but if I can only afford one I usually select the one in the best condition. However if one is in rough condition but has nice engraving, etc, I will buy it and figure I'll fix it up in a next life.

If I have to buy all three, I have taken out a loan, but I seldom do that anymore. I don't do that anymore.

Here is another plan. Lay out all three guns, if you can. Decide which one you can live without. That leaves you with two. Then flip a coin.

That is a good idea. My wife bought me a Parker Trojan 20 for a wedding present and there was a 16 gauge Trojan available at the same time from the same seller who we sort of knew. I am certainly not complaining and feel very fortunate to have the one . . . but it would have been nice to somehow have bought the other one. The good news is I discovered a friend bought the 16 gauge and have right of first refusal. It is always the ones you don't get that you regret

And you know what? That pain of regret lingers. Years after you pass one up you will be at a gunshow and see one like it for three times as much and you will say to yourself, "Damn I had one like that in my hands ten years ago and passed it up!" I will hurt. The hurt that keeps on giving...or am I being crazy? :crying:

You are right about that

Dave M. schooled me on buying Parkers...

"You never pay too much for a Parker, you only buy it (at that price) a little too soon." So far he was correct in this logic.

If they do I also hung on to my 870s, a 12, 28 and .410, all of which I bought new. The 12 is an SC skeet gun I ordered with and extra modified barrel back in 1970 or 71. For years it was the only thing I shot. I will likely never equal the 15 doves I killed with 16 shots with the skeet barrel on back in the 80's. I may get it out this year for old times sake! Like M12's and Timex watches, they take a licking and keep on ticking.

Yep. Great story.

One of my great uncles was a championship shooter. I never knew the gent, but my dad used to hunt with him. Before they went out the old man would ask, "What's the limit?" If it was sixteen, he would slip sixteen shells into the loops of his vest. Cool eh? That's confidence, man. I don't know what kind of gun he shot. I have seen one picture of him taken in the early 30's. I cannot recall if he had a gun in his hands or not, but he is smiling and wearing a canvas shooting jacket.

A coupla months ago I bought a brand new 20 gauge 870 Wingmaster. I cannot recall when I last bought a new shotgun...oh yes I do, it was in 1978. A winchester model 1300 12 gauge. I still have it.

You hit the nail on the head about the advantage of the 16. It is it's weight and balance. The frames on my model 12 and 37 16s are just a tad smaller/lighter than in the 12 gauge and they do seem faster. BTW when I compare the two 16s the model 12 and 37 I tend to the 37 which is a modified. If you don't want to shoot a double at upland game, the Ithaca 37 in 16 gauge with a modified tube IMHO just can't be beat.

My bags are packed for the weekend and I'm taking two guns: 16 ga VH and a 16 ga M12. 16 ga M12's are classic guns by any standard and I am looking forward to shucking more than a few shells.

Have a great hunt! It is hard to find a place to hunt upland birds here, most of the stuff I shoot explode in the air.

Here is my very plain jane Model 12, 16 gauge gun. She's a 1937 issue and has seen hard use. Another pawn shop find and she cost just over $200 and that is about what she is worth, but she works just fine and I don't have to fret about getting scratches on her.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...otguns/001.jpg

Nice one. A dead ringer for my 16 gauge Model 12, except mine is more worn

When I get a new/old gun such as this Model 12 I taken them down and clean and oil the guts. Model 12s don't come apart or go back together easily, but this one was a real mess inside and I'm glad I took the effort to give her a good bath. They are made like a swiss watch and unlock thru recoil just before you pump. Lots of machining and interesting to work on. The Winchester Model 12 shotgun really is "a piece of work".

Someone installed a new magazine in my 16 gauge model 12. When they put the gun back together they installed the wrong follower, which meant it was impossible to load the magazine. I looked up what one of those replacement magazines cost and it was $200! It has kind of a flat black frosted blue/black finish and doesn't fit all that well, which makes the gun a hassle to take down. So I had some gunsmithing expenses.

The 16 is much lighter than the 12 and a bit smaller. It feels more like a 20 than a 12 and since I shoot 1 oz loads at skeet/clays/trap when using a 12, and the same in the 16, it is very nice. Shoots like a 12 and feels like a 20.

I hope the 16 doesn't die.

For the interest of the board here are some comparisons between a 12 and 16 gauge Model 12. Neither deserve to be in the "fine doubles" section, but since we are talking Model 12s here goes.

The 16 is a 1937 gun and the 12 a Nickle Steel 1923 gun. It is easy to see how much smaller the 16 is and it feels about two pounds lighter.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...guns/002-1.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...otguns/006.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...otguns/003.jpg