Case colors for the Trojan
 

Who does the best case colors for Trojan guns. I acquired a 20 gauge Trojan and think I want to restore it.

IMHO, Brad Batchelder in Grand Rapids, Michigan and Doug Turnbull, Bill Schwarz in Georgia is guide good also

Trojan or any other grade... Turnbull. Period.

The accuracy of the work and the level of service are great! I cannot say the same for others.


Lower grades are where truely accurate looking case colors are most important. The less engraving the frame has, the more the colors show.

I favor Turnbull as well.

http://www.turnbullmfg.com/gun/parker-trojan-16-ga/

But first...... before you go down a path from which you cannot return,,,, are you sure it needs to be re-cased?
Why not post some pictures? If it is an honest gun with traces of case in the corners so to speak, you will kill the value by re-casing it.
If you are not concerned about value and just want to hunt or shoot some clays, then why do it?
A 20 gauge Trojan is a choice gun and becoming choicer by the day, But that's my crazy opinion.

Trojan 20 ga. Bachelder colors - they speak for themselves

I agree, But Some don't think twice about re-coloring a 75% or better gun. You woild be surprised.

There is certainly the case for re-casing. I have done it in a reclamation situation. And the fellows mentioned will do well.
But I think of myself as a caretaker of these guns. Hopefully my next generation will do the same and on and on. But if they had to get money out of them for whatever reason, they will get more for an original gun at 25% plus they will get the cash I didn't spend on re-casing. But that's only my analysis.

Turnbull's shop did my old VH 12 a few years ago and it is outstanding.

Would you re-case color this frame?

No way

If a lady wishes to get a tuck here or there or some other restorative procedure and to feel better about her self and be more attractive to her husband, I say go for it. Value? PRICELESS Not too different between a man and his gun. :rotf::bigbye:

Better is in the eyes of the beholder.....But most would leave that one alone for sure.............

Allen;
Ditto on what Dave said. To me and others, that gun is worth more in it's present condition than if you had it "restored". JMHO.

George:
As my legal mouthpiece you have said exactly how I feel.:bowdown:

Re-case-coloring that pretty gun, in my humble opinion, would devalue it significantly.

I wouldn't do it if it were my gun... unfortunately, it isn't.






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Allen,
My answer here is still NO.

Absolutely not.

It's important that you give consideration to many other factors, besides the amount of remaining color. In most circumstances, the metal gets some degree of polishing, and this may impact the quality and crispness of the original engraving. A proper reheat treatment (after all, case hardening is a heat treatment)will involve a stress relieve cycle after the quench cycle. This will only marginally soften the case (very shallowest surface) the more highly engraved a gun is, the greater that plays into the treatment(s). Each and every heating and cooling cycle is an opportunity for distortion.

The above is fact ,from which I draw 35 years of experience in metalurgy.
The following is opinion;
Brad Bachelder has shown, in dozens of guns we have seen in Parker Pages, and elsewhere, to have the best heat treatment practice when it comes to reproducing Meriden colors. Turnbull can closely approximate early Winchester colors on forged receivers, and barely comes close to the all time famous Colt SAA receiver colors. He does not, in my mindcome close to Meriden Bone, Leather, Charcoal case hardening colors.
When to do it? It's your gun, you decide. I doubt seriously I would consider doing it to a gun exhibiting 35-40% colors or more.

Dean and Edgar, I will pm you details on this gun which is currently being restocked to my specs by Brad. Although Lawyer Henry F. Tenney had the original stock cut very short for his wife, and with too much drop for me and no cast and being a Parker that I have no intention of ever selling as it will go to one grandson, the oldest of two, upon my demise. I am keeping the original stock and forend however.

Thanks to Everyone!
 

I really appreciate everyone's opinion! Thank you all. As I have been disassembling the Trojan, I am fascinated and very impressed at the work that was put into this gun. I am confident this gun has never been opened up. So many of the parts are stamped with the serial # and the fit of all the parts is awesome. When I purchased the gun it had been neglected, the barrels on the outside had many rust spots as well as the receiver. I think to begin with I will just clean everything up and shoot the gun to begin with. I will post pictures as I make progress. I am attaching a couple of pics to give an idea of what I am up against.

Pics of Trojan
 

Here we go

I think restored guns look better if everything but the frame is redone, patina always looks more righteous than a recase. If the receiver was previously polished then you don't have much choice. Why not redo the whole gun the way you like and see how it looks with the original frame. If you don't like it then do it.

Trojan picture
 

Shows very little case.

he barrels need to be touched up as well. A Frontier Pad with some Rem Oil would clean much of those barrels up and give you a better idea of the real finish remaining underneath. You'd be surprised.

David,
Thank you for posting a picture of the 20g that you posted about. It helps us in accurately commenting on your gun instead of just speculating.

The condition of your gun is what some would call a "rough weather hunter". One you can take out and get good service out of and not worry about getting it messed up.

Case coloring this gun is the LAST concern you should have. Other matters like barrel blue and wood condition always trump frame condition in my book when it comes to what should and shouldnt be restored in a priority list standpoint.

The only way this gun should be considered being re-colored is if a FULL restorstion was being done. And even then, the amount of surface prep to the frame would be great because of the damage already caused by active rust.

Shoot it and enjoy.

Thanks to all for advice on the trojan
 

Thank you for your assessment Brian. I agree and have already started working on the barrels and the wood. I picked up the gun from a nice lady who said her dad purchased the gun. I plan on posting pictures when I finish. If I were a financially independent fellow I would own many high grade Parkers and Smiths. As is I will continue to search for the diamonds in the rough and enjoy them for what they are, awesome examples of American art and quality craftsmanship.

In past years, I have "Hunted" such guns as the pictured Trojan back to reasonable condition. At 70 1/2, I am beyond that, but Brian's advice to attack the receiver after everything else is done, is good advice.

I believe Doug Turnbull's colors are the best for a Parker re-color. I have examined all the other current re-color providers and feel Doug is the best and most accurate. I am a little younger than Bill Murphy but I believe his opinions on restorations are spot on for an older guy!

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I don't consider myself a broken clock just stating the opinion of one man as is Edgar. The best approach is to look at many examples and make up your own mind. You are paying the bill so what makes you happy is the most important factor.

I couldn't agree more, Craig, however, I am not, as you say, stating the opinion of one man, although I have yet to see, out of many examples, a piece of Mr. Turnbull's work that resembles colors reminiscent of Meriden's heat treat practice. As you may have failed to notice, I am only one of Many, who like another well known shop. Some people tout the work of a shop because they have had them do work; others may tout the work of a shop because they don't get along with another shop. My opinion is based upon what I have paid money for, in addition to many guns which I have cased for others.
As I stated before, I think Turnbull has a good idea how to heat treat a Winchester frame, but not so much a Colt frame. I spent over 20 years making Colt's case hardening boxes (yes, they are cast martensitic stainless steel) and did manage to pick up a few bits and bobs of info along the way. I have no doubt when Turnbull gets his packing practice under control, he'll start being consistent. What I mean by the clock thing, is his practice is not consistent.
What many people think of his work, may not, in fact, be his work. Do you know what he farms out? Hmmm......

OK Edgar you win, sorry to state my opinion. I surrender, I have learned my lesson. I am only an unsophisticated apple knocker from upstate NY.

After clean up
 

After considering all advice here is a picture of the Trojan cleaned up. I still intend to work on the barrel blue a bit.

It looks like it's cleaning up fairly well. I'm pretty much in Brian's camp on this one.

Clean it up the best you can & enjoy it for what it is.

I have a small covey of guns I have bought over the years, covered in rust, and abused and neglected in other ways. Most are in wonderful condition today and only a couple ever saw the inside of a gunsmith's shop.

[IMG]case coloring[/IMG]Attached are some pics of the case coloring don't by Lyons Gunsmithing, Correct the more engraving exhibits a more subtle appearance than as shown in the Parker Vgrade receiver, this was an old receiver , stripped due to rust , Lyons does Rust bleuing case coloring, nitre blue , hot blueing

jack the pictures don't come up. we can't see them

case coloring
 

case coloring can be a very opionitive subject , Seems I cannot get the pic thru email me jlyons1@comcast.net , I will send pics of case coloring we do in our shop, Lyons Gunsmithing, WE SPECIALIZE IN ONE GUN ONLY--YOURS

Jack, do you color case harden all guns the same or do you use different formulas (crucible packings) for the various makes?





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IT ALL DEPENDS, MARLIN, WINCHESTER PARKER, LC SMITH, THEY AII REQUIRE DIFFERRENT MIX THANKS

Not really. They either look right or they dont.