Remington's policy on shooting Damascus barrels
 

There has been much discussion in the past about the safety of shooting Damascus steel barrels with modern ammunition. I just received some notebooks with Parker/Remington correspondence and I found their opinion on shooting Damascus steel and there policy about doing repairs.

Tom Carter, on a previous thread, stated that he had Remington repair codes on his 20ga Damascus barrels. Go figure!

I'm still going to shoot mine

What a bunch of weenie lawyer driven bull. Just because the gun has damascus barrels they wont even fix a butt plate?

Great letter though Chuck, thank you.

You got it George- It's all about liability. I read somewhere that Chas. Parker was really worried about the liability thing and actually designed his guns and most of his products to exceed the extremes any user could subject them to. If anyone is worried I'll test their Damascus guns for them.... no charge of course.

This is kinda what has been said for a long time Shoot the proper load designed for the gun and make sure gun is safe in all ways no matter what it is ! COMMON SENSE !

Rem codes
 

Hi Chuck, Here is the picture of the Remington codes. I would guess Remington had a policy change. Cheers, Tom

No picutre. I'll try again.

If I'm reading the codes correctly they are February 1936 and January 1937.

Rem codes
 

Maybe this time. It's amazing how it works when you do it correctly. Tom

Wonder if the guarantee on Remington 1894 barrels still applied? :rolleyes:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../397290252.jpg

Since the normal 12ga in damascus and fluid steel was patterned with 1 1/8oz loads pushed at 1125 to 1200 fps muzzle velocity, in 1900 and still available today, I've always wondered what "modern" loads are.

Maybe a "modern" load in 12ga is 1 3/8 oz at 1400fps, like sold by the case by Cabelas in South Dakota for pheasant shooting? If so, I'll stick to old fashioned loads regardless of the gun.

From the very introduction in the October 1894 Remington Arms Co. catalogue, the Remington Hammerless Gun was said to be "guaranteed for nitro powders". However, from surviving hang tags, we know that up to at least 1899, they were still being targetted with a black powder load of 3 1/2 Drachms F.G. Powder pushing 1 1/4 ounce of #8 chilled shot. By a 1908 vintage hang tag a 12-gauge Remington Hammerless Gun was being targetted with a load of 24 grains of Infallible in a 2 5/8 inch UMC Nitro Club shell pushing 1 1/4 ounce of #8 chilled shot. On the back of the 1908 hang tag they give maximum recommended 12-gauge loads of 3 1/4 drams of the various bulk smokeless powders or 26 grains of Infallible or Ballistite dense smokeless powders. These are considerably lighter than the loads given on the back of the 1899 hang tag.

Is Unique modern version of Infallible powder?

These are un-confirmed references, i.e. from Internet gun forums...

"Unique is one of the oldest powders available, having been, by some accounts, introduced as early as 1890 by Laflin and Rand as their "Infallible" powder, the name later having been changed either by DuPont, who bought L&R, or by Hercules, the company that resulted from DuPont's divestiture of that business."

"While I am certainly in agreement with being kind to 100 yr old wood it is in fact true that not all 100 yr old loads were the powder-puff loads of 1 1/8 oz @ 1100 fps mentioned. My 1913 catalog Lefever Arms Co catalog gives recommended loads in 12ga going up to 3½ drams or equivelent of black, bulk or dense smokeless powders with 1¼ oz shot. Thr old L&R Infallible powder in those days in paper cases with card & felt wadding was rated in 12ga at about 8 grains per 1 dram equivelent, so the 26 grain cited by drew under 1¼oz would be a 3¼-1¼ load. The above quoted Lefever catalog lists Invallible up to 28 grains (3½DE) under that same 1¼ oz shot. By 1913 Infallible would have been a Hercules powder rather than L&R.

In a series of articles appearing in the American Rifleman back in the 50's on propellant powders for Rifles, Shotguns & Handguns & repeated in the 60's in their handloades guide it was stated that Infallible & Unique were just two names for the same powder. Infallible had been listed for loads in shotshells with Unique appearing in loads for rifles or hndgun cartridges. At about the time of the original articles Infallible seems to have dropped from the scene & virtually identical loads began appearing in shotshell data using Unique. The oldest load data I have with pressure readings was published in a realoders handbook by the infamous George Leonard Herter with a copyright date of 1963. A 23 gr load of Unique under 1 1/8 oz shot in paper case with paper wads (card & fiber) shows 8,725 psi. A picture of his pressure gun shows a crusher set up, so presumely this was "Uncorrected" LUP's, common for the era. Now realizing the primers may have been hotter & other subtle changes over a half century may have given an increase in pressures, but anyway you slice it, even in 1913 28 grs of Infallible behind 1¼ oz shot was "NOT" a particularlly mild load. Also admittedly it was not the every day load of the average rabbit or bird hunter, but it was a listed load of at least one gunmaker for use in their guns & no caveat was given as to the type of bbl construction it should or should not be fired through."

But then maybe Infallible is now Bullseye...
http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.co...zan/index.html

"There were not yet too many handloaders, daring enough to use smokeless powders for the handgun cartridges. They called this punching waste of an "Infallible" as a "Bullseye powder", because the very mild loads of it were able to throw the bullets in the bullseye of a target. To the Finnish readers: "Bullseye" on suomeksi "napakymppi" tai ainakin osuma pistooli-koulutaulun mustaan disipliini-ammunnoissa.

In 1904 the popularity of a dust-Bullseye was increased so much that the punch-waste could no more meet the demand. Hercules re-named the "Infallible" powder as "Bullseye". The good old dust-Bullseye was soon never more available, because that punch-waste was re-gelatinized and rolled once again to sheets for punching of the new disc-Bullseye. Revolver cartridge handloaders were angry, because the needed charges of a new disc-kernelled powder were ca. 25% heavier than those of original "dust powder", which was easy to ignite and burned away entirely before the bullet of an usual revolver target-load was jumped from the cylinder to the barrel. A price reduction of disc-Bullseye was enough to calm the hard feelings down: Not many handloaders declined to the use of a sooty black powder or the mixtures like "KING's SEMI-SMOKELESS"."

Dave or Dr. Drew, "What say you?" :)