UnBurnt Powder ???
 

Gentlemen

I wanted to ask your advise regarding unburnt powder on my skeet loads. I patterned my AE Grade Fox I plan on shooting skeet with. One load was 15 gns. of 700x with 3/4 oz. lead, the other was 15gns. of 700x and 24grams of lead. When I got home I looked down the barrels and it looked like there was some unburnt powder on the insides of the barrels. I know a clean burn is better but is this something I need to address or ignore ? Will it hurt anything ? I had both loads tested at precision and the psi and velocity were fine. At least it looked like powder flakes that didnt burn.
Also the 3/4 oz. load didnt look near as impressive of a pattern as the 24 grams. I only shot 2 rounds of each load, one down each barrel ) to pattern. Is this enough to be considered a sufficient test ? These loads are in a 2 1/2 inch cheddite , 12 gauge

Thanks for any input.
Kirk

hmm, I shoot 700-x for how clean it burns and low pressure loads. I have used it from the 1970's to date. try 15.5 grs and see if that changes anything. that's what I shoot in my 7/8 oz loads and bores look clean when done. with that said little dirt won't hurt anything.
scott

As long as the patterns are consistently evenly-spaced and you are breaking the clays a little unburned powder isn't an issue. Shorter barrels can cause this this but it can happen in 28" barrels as well. Maybe try the next hotter primer??





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Thanks guys for the input. I think I will just shoot the 24 gram load. It really looked good. The 3/4 has some holes in it. I think I will shoot up some that I already have loaded then maybe try the 15 1/2 grain load. Maybe I don’t like shooting a load when I don’t know where I am A little powder won’t hurt. I clean it anyway. I have some Holland and holland fiber wads. That should clean it. ��. My barrels are 26 inch. Could be it.

Let me first say I HAVE NEVER loaded 700X . I have however talked with a bunch of older guys who always claimed 700X was dirty . I'm by no means saying you're wrong as I personally do not know , just telling what I've been told over the years .

I think we can trust the veracity of Scott's statement.





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700X has been my standard powder for 12 and 20's for years. I never thought of it as dirty. Now, if you want to talk dirty powders, 800X is at the top of my list, ( but it was also my preferred load for 1 1/4 oz field trial loads)

Thanks to all for the input..... seeing the fact I have nearly 20lbs of it. I am just going to shoot it. Hopefully I will be a descent shot by the time I finish it..... Plan on practicing on clay over the summer.

Kirk - If you're somewhere near Mich, and want to sell the 700x, let me know.

Im near Dallas Texas. But Im going to keep it. I have already tested all my loads with it. Unless something happened recently its ready available everywhere.

Have not reloaded in years and not familiar with 700X and its corrosive properties. I do know black powder can be very corrosive and should be cleaned often and then cleaned some more. I always thought the so called modern powders would not harm the barrels. Yep they might be dirty but maybe not harmed by the residue. I am always amazed when looking at used guns at even some high end gunshops and the barrels are sometimes dirty.

Having a dirty gun even overnight gives me the willies.

It's my understanding that it is corrosive primers (no longer in use), not the powder, that is the problem

Hard to tell looking at the bore if residue is burned or unburned powder . Make a patch out of a blue shop towel. 1/4 about right for a 12 G. Light lube with oil and push it through the bores.

Take the patch outside and light it with a match. Unburned powder grains will fizz. Dirty bore won’t

William

Hmm, have not heard that before. Maybe something to it as a combination. Whatever the problem was I think they might have cured it in modern load components. I don't know that much about black powders from back then to ones made today but would like to think they are not near as bad as they were from 1800's with quality control and corrosive properties. Probably wrong on that assumption as well.

Also agree with William as test but my guess its burnt powder residue. Some powders have the different burn rates. Learned this the hard way shooting right handed semi-autos as lefty and having some slow burning powder slung in front of your eyes. Also saw some poor college kid at a KA Old South party use modern slow burn powder instead of black powder in a canon, and even standing half way beside canon but downwind got burned very badly. God sometimes does not take care of drunken children.

700X isn't the cleanest burning powder but I shot it for years with no problems. It's only as dirty as the last shot. Every gun could pattern the same load differently. The wife's little 28ga Beretta wouldn't pattern 8 1/2's worth a darn, but 8's or 9's were just fine. I don't know what the pressures were, but you could try a 1/2gr more of powder and see how it patterns/burns. Good luck.

Low P loads with 700x? I inherited a large tin of it and have never used it because I've not seen low P loads for it. I recently loaded up 1000 9mm with it just to use it up. I hope it doesn't gum up my HPower too badly.

15 grs 700-x 7/8ths oz shot 209p primer sts hull at 1150 fps 5700 psi
lots of loads fron 7/8ths oz to 1 oz with psi under 7000

The 209p might be the issue. I always have 10,000+ WW209's in stock and don't use loads that don't use that primer. Could be I've just not found a low P load using a 209 primer. For the size of the tin I have it would be worth buying some p's to use it up. I think I have the same issue with large jugs of WST and 800-X.

with most of the primers, 209a,win 209,and others except the mag. primers, should be no problem to find data with 7000 psi and under for 700-x. I load from 20 ga 3/4 oz to 10 ga. 1 1/4 oz all lead loads.
scott

If you're loading at 8000psi or less any of the mild primers will work without a lot to worry about. I'm looking at 16grs of 700X in a Rem hull and 3/4oz of shot and with a Rem, Win, or Cheddite primer and they all have 9300 to 9900psi. If you go down to the 14gr loads they show pressure in the 7000psi+ range.

Shot thousands (maybe 60-70K+) of rounds reloaded for bunker practice in the 1990s using 700X. Our favorite practice load was the Win AA hull (the good early version) with W209 primer, Federal SO wad, 7/8 oz. of high antimony magnum Lawrence shot (sometimes plated), and 21.5 gns. of 700X. The only restriction for international shooting was a shot charge of 7/8 oz. or less. The SO wad was superior to any of the other off-brand equivalents for ease of reloading and patterning. They cost more but the results were dramatic.

21.5 gr with 7/8 oz? Wow!
What is the velocity? I use 17 gr with 1 oz, for my sporting clays/skeet loads which give me about 1200 fps.

We measured velocity a couple of times with a tabletop mounted Oehler chronograph and recorded it in excess of 1290 fps several times. In international trapshooting, the only restriction is the load weight (and I think they have prohibited ported barrels, thank God!!).

At our biggest shoots, a number of people would come from Spain, Portugal, Germany, New Zealand, Australia, and even Indonesia. But by far the biggest bunker fanatics were the Italians, who often imported their own ammunition for the biggest shoots. The array of loads they would bring always had outrageous velocities - one brand of shell they loved was called the Melior "Meteor". They were loaded with about 6-7% high antimony nickel plated lead shot. We chronographed several of these at or near steel shot waterfowl load velocities; some approaching 1400 fps. At 55-60 yards, a second-barrel kill out of a full choked barrel would light a target up like a fluorescent bulb.

And what would it do for your shoulder after a days shooting ? Think that's where the word " flinch " came from.

CORRECTION - I went back and retrieved the reloading logs I saved from the mid-1990s, and the bunker load referred to above was in fact 19.5 gns. of 700X, NOT 21.5 gns. My Bad!

I load with a selection of powder over here GB .the weather this time of year is cold and damp.and I get dirty barrels.When weather changes the barrels are much cleaner.I have noticed this over a number of years

Kevin, that's ok - I have a friend who use to load an outrageous amount of Green Dot for " back at the fence " trap games. His nick name was Green Dot. He one day separated the barrels on a Beretta. Told the factory he just shot factory loads and somehow they replaced them. Michael, if you're not at the high end already, you may try another grain of powder to see if they burn cleaner - just a thought.

At one point I could get all the 700x I could possibly shoot for free. I shot 1-1/8 oz loads for years and it was very clean. I then got tired of the recoil and switched to 1 oz 700x loads and it was extremely dirty despite playing with different charge levels. Switched to Clays and problem solved.

Paul I load quite a few cartridges all with the same powder load.On a nice warm day they leave nice clean barrels.But on a cold wet day the same cartridges are dirty.its the same with factory loads.Theres a artical on u tube called "George Digweed pigeonshooting with warm cartridges" At the end he's shooing with cartridges he warmed on a radiator.

I don't understand tbe concern with dirty barrels in smokeless powder. I clean the gun when i get home, regardless.

Seeing how we're not shooting auto's :nono: it's only dirty as the last shot. :whistle: Shoot a 100 or so black powder shells if you want to see dirty barrels. :shock: Takes about 15 minutes to clean a double. :bigbye:

I don’t worry about clean powders in SXS guns either. I do want full burn no unburned grains left in the barrel.

Having said that Clays powder burns a lot cleaner. Few years back I was shooting a pair of S&W 625 .45 Acp revolvers in IDPA. Reloads are on the clock and 6 moonclipped cartridges have to drop in the chambers at one time gravity alone. 1911 pistols push one at a time in with a strong spring. Guys always had trouble with Unique powder they regularly used in 1911 loads chambering in the revolver.

Fix was switching to Hodgdon Clays. You can shoot all day without brushing out the cylinder. Is that important in a SxS ? Not to me.

William