Flintlock Fun
 

With a little improvement in the weather, I got out for some sporting clays yesterday. I had bought my dream muzzleloading shotgun last year and hadn't shot it yet. It's a John Manton 16 gauge Flintlock sxs. It was everything I had hoped it would be.

I shot it 20 times and it worked flawlessly. Not bad for a shotgun made in 1818. Looking forward to getting to know her a little better this year with both clays and a hunting trip.

Congratulations on acquiring that wonderful gun. I’ll be looking for photos of your first hunt with that beauty.

Wow I get smug with the usual tacticool vermin at my local club when I’m shooting a 135 year old hammer gun and they have a Benelli vegamatic or some such . But shooting a 206 year old gun would be very neat :cool:

I think it’d be quite intresting to take a couple quail a couple Partidge and a couple pheasants with the little gun ! Heck a couple mallards would be Intresting as well :cool:

My hunting buddies and I have bird hunted with black powder shotguns quite a bit. However, these were modern reproduction caplocks, not the real thing. Always wanted to hunt with a flintlock and wondered- would that slight delay in ignition mess up my lead?
Congrats and I, too, would like to hear back with photos about your bird adventures, what load and shot volumes you use, how it patterns, etc. So envious! Thank you Jay.

An exquisite gun. The next time you shoot it please get a photo from the side of it firing.

...and for goodness sake, don't forget to duck down quickly after shooting so you can look under the smoke cloud and see the the bird falls. If you can't see it then the bird's still flying behind the smoke...

What a beutiful presentation.

I was using 2 1/2 drams of 2f Swiss and 7/8oz of shot. I do need to pattern it. There wasn't any perceptible delay in ignition and main charge. This is perhaps the quickest flintlock I have ever fired and was cutting edge back in the day. John and Joseph Manton had this perfected.

My timing was a bit off on crossing shots, but that was me not the gun. For some reason whenever I shoot black powder I always lead too much, and then realize, you can pretty much shot it like any other shotgun.

I am going to take it on a Preserve pheasant hunt in the next week or two. I would like to take her to shot clays one more time before that. I should pattern it and also try a 1oz load. I would love to take it grouse hunting in the fall too.

I have shot and hunted with original percussion guns too. It is a lot of fun. I didn't do it last year, but I remember there being a muzzleloading event at the Southern, but I didn't see it on the schedule for this year. the one year I did do it, I really enjoyed and learned a lot from the participants.

Oh man that is so cool. I think everything I have would take a backseat to that

On a good flintlock there should be no perceptible delay of the ignition. You have a good gun there Jay. If you're going to the Spring Southern, they have a muzzle loading shotgun event. I think it's 20 or 30 birds on the course on Wednesday. Two birds per station. That gun could take home some BLING!!

That is one beautiful gun you have Jay in my favorite gauge. I'm curious to see how this patterns for you. I have had good luck pheasant hunting with a 15 gauge cylinder bore percussion double using the so called "skychief load". For those unfamiliar with this load, you load a oil soaked cushion wad on top of the shot instead of under the shot which helps tighten up the pattern in a cylinder bore and helps make it more practical out to 35-40 yards.

Matt, I have not tried the sky chief load, but I have heard about it. Are you putting a oil soaked fiber wad or wool wad on top? I guess I could try both. I will pattern it soon, I can stop thinking about when I can shoot it again.

I do like shooting these muzzleloaders. It fun to get them dialed in and be able to use them effectively. I like how it slows things down too. On this flintlock the wood on the stock might have come from a tree that started grow in the 1600s, that's kind of neat and crazy at the same time.

I would love to get a few of us together for muzzleladers in the morning and hammer gun Parkers in the afternoon.

Beautiful gun.

Heck take it along to Sanford I suspect there’s still an event !

Jay look down almost at the bottom of the registration form , Backwoods is providing the trophy . https://www.southernsidebyside.com/_...48e68ecb13.pdf

Jay, your gun is so fine. I have a similar John Manton, but made in 1831. Wish we could get together and shoot them side by side. I had to build a case for mine. Is your case the original one?

https://i.imgur.com/2vkCsVB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HR4HAOx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/FV6KMEy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qYalhaZ.jpg

What Gauge?

I use the thicker fiber wads that I soak in vegetable oil. I think the idea is to get a heavy wad on top of the shot and the fiber wads will soak up more oil than the thinner wool wads and I think are more effective for the Skychief load.

Those are not just guns, they are works of art in gun form. Comparable to the modern work of some of the smiths, or should they be called artists, on this forum.

Matt Buckley, it is a 16 ga.

I have enjoyed this thread and appreciate the compliments on the gun. I heard metallic cartridges are just a passing fad!

All it had made me want to do is go shooting again. Craig, I am glad I made that mistake about the muzzleloading event at the Southern. I am definitely going to do that on Thursday. There is a black powder cartridge event on Friday that I will use a Parker in :)

Daryl that case that came with mine is original. You did a great job making yours. It is hard to find a case that will fit a muzzleloading shotgun.

I need to try that sky chief load. I might do some patterning over the weekend. Then some sporting clays during the week for more practice then a preserve hunt soon after.

These are a lot of fun and it is nice to see so much interest.

Bring your mountain howitzer as well I think CL is working on another 8 event for Friday morning !

Craig, I was hoping there was going to be an 8 gauge shoot too!

what an incredible survivor

You black powder guys are awful. It took almost a year to finally convince myself I need to sell all my black powder stuff (it accumulates) and now after reading this darn thread I'm thinking no and instead I'll take one on a quick quail hunt before the end of the season. Also used to enjoy turkey hunting with blackpowder...except when there's a drought and after you shoot you have to scramble to stomp out the burning leaves between you and the flopping Tom! And another thing- once you get used to the smell of burnt black powder you just don't appreciate the rancid smell of burnt smokeless powder- kind of like enjoying the smell of the exhaust of an old internal combustion engine using real gasoline compared to modern unleaded.... (:

Jay, the case was difficult to find as the Manton barrels require a 32" inside dimension. Finally found one in England.

Chris, I',too, enjoy black powder guns from that era of craftsmen using hammers, chisels, files, drills , and maybe gas lighting if they were lucky. Over the past few years I have enjoyed pinfires for hunting and fun shooting. That period seems to include the best examples of gunmaking art after the flinters.

Would someone tell me about the Skychief load in detail? I’ve shot ML’ers since the late 50’s but this is a new one to me.

Hi Joe, I enjoyed looking at pictures of you sxs flinlock. We need to get a handful of us together for a shoot.

This is from member Skychief on the Muzzleloader forum:

I have not tried it yet, but might play around with it this weekend. It is supposed to exponentially improve the pattern

Thanks, Jay for the explanation. I’m active on the ML forum as flintsteel. Guess I’m skeptical but willing to see something new. I’d think a heavy fiber wad over the shot would tear the pattern to pieces. Anxious to hear what your experience is.

Your Manton was designed to be self priming. Of course it was before these huge personal liability awards but it works fine and really speeds ignition. Close frizzen and load with something like 3f and when pushing down the wad escaping air pressure will fill the pan to perfection. I’d reduce the powder charge by about 20% to start and then work back up if desired. I own a Manton target pistol with the same self priming feature. I load a 9mm case with 4f and load normally. The pan fills as much as Manton desired and ignition is almost instantaneous.

Am reading a biography of John Adams and just last night read that at the 1776 Continental Congress John Hancock always kept a silk handkerchief wrapped around his right hand. Some years before in a hunting accident he blew off all fingers. Wonder what he was doing…..ha!

Be careful, it’s a dangerous world out there!

Here is my Hege Manton lock clearly showing the self priming feature and the division on the bottom of the pan insures powder will be evenly distributed on each side. Very inconvenient to prime externally.

https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/71783_1024x711.jpg

Thanks Joe, I noticed this when I was cleaning up after shooting, but didn't know exactly what it was. That's pretty neat and shows how "cutting edge" these were at the time. Here is a picture of my lock.

I didn't find it too difficult to prime with 4f but I agree it is a little awkward as the shape is different than other flintlock pans.

Quick edit: I probably should have posted a picture of the right lock to show the similarity...

Here are some pics of the Manton patent lock interiors as nicely described by Joe Wood. Note the frizzen/pan shapes on this 7#1 oz, 17 bore gun. Also a shot of the platinum touch hole.

https://i.imgur.com/W4kTTIZ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fFNrScE.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hLvpWoB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qdjgZGd.jpg

I have used the skychief load and it is effective at tightening up patterns. I'm not exactly sure how it works but it does.

Here's the "inside" of the frizzen with the self priming feature.

https://i.imgur.com/abDOQSi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uk7Jcsr.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yr9sh6S.jpg

A feature I didn't know existed.

Matt, I really only knew about the self priming patent, but this thread made me look deeper into my gun to see the product of the patent suggested earlier by Joe Wood. I can really see the logic of it all.

I have a .45 flint rifle in the style of J.P.Beck of Lebanon, PA (circa 1780-1820?) that I have drilled the touchole out to 5/64” and with the pan closed whilst loading it is self priming with the 3f I feed it. Pretty neat…..except it ain’t safe! Once again, John Hancock lost all fingers on one hand due to a hunting accident.