Why is a 12 ga Parker a "boat anchor" these days?
 

I recently asked for help with the evaluation of a 12 ga Parker shotgun and one or more responses compared a 12 ga Parker to a boat anchor. Little interest.

Why is this so? The commonality, or lack if rarity, of a 12 bore? Increasing interest amongst women who might find a 12 bore's recoil to be punishing? An increasing average age of Parker owners who might find a 12 bore uncomfortable to shoot due age and increasing frailty and/or health related issues? Less folks interested in side by side shotguns which makes the less common more affordable? Any and all of the above? Or, something else?

I think this applies to all 12 ga shotguns. A Fox Sterlingworth with good plus condition is a $500 gun and has been stuck there a very long time. I know of a 12 ga Ithaca 5E New Ithaca Double that was nearly 100% except the recoil pad was toast from sitting on it in an attic for 70+ years that brought $5750 at auction just last month, including commission.

Thoughts?

There are more shooter grade vintage 12-gauge doubles then there are people who want them.

which 12 ga Parker - what grade and conditon

a few uninformed opinions doesn't make it true

but- it does seem common lower grade double guns in average or less condition - f any make - are not hot selling items right now.


ask them if they are willing to sell you a 12 ga Parker for the price of a boat anchor if they are so uninterested in them

I should add that, not just to be PC, an interest in Parkers amongst women is a good, no great, thing! Goodness knows we need more interest in vintage side by sides, even if not 12 gauges. I sure wish I could get my wife interested.

GHE 12 vs Damascus barrels, 1927, with condition.

I should add I am the prospective purchaser, so a lower price for a potential "boat anchor" is a good thing. I hope to negotiate wisely! However, and no one can predict this, nothing prevents this from becoming even more of an anchor over time. Demographics are not in the favour of Parker owners!

If you are selling a light 1 frame 12 ga Bernard barreled boat anchor , contact me .

Lower grade 12g guns of any make will always be a “boat anchor” in any market as they are common. The more of them there are, the harder they are to sell.

I can think of some things that make good boat anchors but never a Parker shotgun of any description. Like a nice set of concrete shoes, not in use at the moment, but never a classic Parker.

I have been trying to sell a very nice antique DH 12ga 30" for $1850. with no interest so don't feel bad. The good news is you get a lot of gun for your dollar with 12 ga guns. I am a big fan of 12ga, there as pretty to look at as the small bores and 1/3rd the price. That way I can own three times as many! I figure why buy an expensive 28 ga long barreled Parker when I can just shoot very pleasant 3/4 oz loads in my 12's. :rotf:

My safe is full of boat anchors. Some of them have nice wood and engraving. Being a hard core 12 gauge guy helps.

There are several reasons 12 gauge doubles in general are loosing value.The main one in my opinion,is that very few serious shooters now use a 12 for anything but duck hunting. The advent of steel shot put most 12 doubles on the sideline.Younger waterfowlers want more firepower and a gun that can get wet and beat up without worry.As for upland hunters,most have gone to small gauge guns.Also,the gun market has gone to almost a pure collector market.Any gun in mint condition,even a 12,will bring more than ever.But the price difference between 100% and 90% condition has never been greater.

That's a nice gun and no interest at $1850. It makes the GHE I inquired about probably less than a $1500 gun.

Good luck in your search but a PM to me about the price of my gun would have been much more appropriate in my opinion.

John so if u don't shoot a small bore your not a serious shooter??? That's news to most the sxs shooters I know.

No, I didn't say that. $1850 seems really fair for the gun you have for sale. I am looking at a GHE a friend has for sale, price not determined yet. If that doesn't go through, yours at $1850 could be an option. I am amazed these are that low these days. I had an interest in this stuff years ago, and prices are much, much lower now.

Well, why are you complaining about low prices if you are a buyer? Start writing checks and adding to your collection. There are wonderful 12 gauge guns for sale today at great prices. Your question should be "Where should I be looking?" I am finding way more great guns than I can buy, at great prices.

Okay, where should I be looking?

Right now I'm waiting for my friend to decide if he wants to sell me his GHE or not. He's still digesting the fact it's not a 4k gun in today's market.

Tell him to put it out on the open market for $4k. Or even for $3k and see how long it takes for him to realize it wont sell. He MAY get some interest around $2500 or so. But him crying about one buyer not giving $4k is hardly a test of the market and the true “right price” for the gun.

Brian's suggestion is a great idea.Let him put it out at $4000 and see what happens.If he sells it,good for your friend.If not, you can make him a reasonable offer and you both are happy.

Markets change, 45 years ago 16 ga. guns were worth a third less than 12 bores, damascus guns brought a fraction of what a steel barrel guns brought, trap and skeet were the popular forms of competitive shooting replaced by sporting clays today, pheasants were plentiful and challenging now they are all but extinct in upstate New York unless you go to a game farm, and without a doubt there a fewer individuals willing to pay todays asking prices while years ago there was a line of people willing to buy good guns.

Oh yeah, the internet has saturated the market with good 12ga. guns.

I’d rather pass up an $1850 grade 3 and wait for a good (?) grade 2, said no one ever.

He is an octogenarian and it was quite time consuming even for him to locate the gun which ended up being in the most obvious place after all. He doesn't even wake up most days until noon due to a steady infusion of Old Grandad the evening before, which often can run to well after midnight. Not the type to seek a customer or market it. He just had decided that it was worth 3k two years ago and increased at $500 every 01 January. He will likely take a few weeks or months to comprehend that the going rate is much less and decide if he would have the cash or just keep the gun.

The gun in question has been evaluated on another posting ghe 12 ga Damascus nice gun good condition it is not s boat anchor it is not a 4 k gun and it is not a 1500$ gun it is a 2000$-2500$ and if the owner listed it for sale he would get that money for it because you the potential buyer thinks it’s a 1500$ gun does not mean that is what it is worth. The owner has not listed it anywhere for any price so this is all speculation and wishful thinking.

Yes, the GHE was evaluated in another thread. Various opinions were given.

Over in the Classified section right now there is a very nice DH with Damascus barrels and antique, which is more desirable, for sale at $1850 and a GH for sale at $1895, also with Damascus barrels, but not antique. In similar condition to the GHE. Both haven't jumped off the shelf. Seems like $1800 is a stretch for the GHE in today's market.

In the GHE thread, 12 gauges were described as a boat anchor. That's where I got that from.

I have sold many firearms not many Parker’s but many , many many pre 64 model 70 Winchester’s and there is a firearm that has pricing all over the map it is subjective to one person a certain model is worth x amount of $’s and that model may sit at what seems overpriced and all of a sudden it sold for the price that it was marketed at this is know different. Many factors come in to play . I have been making a living in the firearms industry since since 1977 nothing is carved in stone As stated this particular gun has not be marketed on any site so know one has had the opportunity to buy this particular gun it may be the gun that one person has been looking for and it would be sold . It’s a very individual thing .

I don’t believe a Parker with Damascus barrels made pre-1898 is any more desirable than if it was made later than 1898. A desirable Parker’s individual attributes should always far outweigh it being “antique” or not.





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Pre 1899 is definitely more desirable than post 1898. Cash and carry. No paperwork, no FFL, no record...

This is the case with Winchesters, Colts, etc.

I disagree - If you like the gun and want the gun - Buy the gun.


If one insists on “No paperwork, no FFL, no record” you must have something to hide.


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:rotf::rotf::rotf:

Certainly that is always the case. But if presented two identical guns at similar prices, one being antique and the other not, I would definitely opt for the antique gun first.

FFL paperwork is a PITA and probably unconstitutional.

1. That is certainly your prerogative but it doesn’t make a classic American SXS shotgun made before 1899 any more desirable to anyone else.

2. The FFL laws in place today have been tested against the US Constitution and the only people who’s right to legally obtain a firearm have been abridged are those people with a criminal background.
But I agree it’s a PITA.




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Most assume the opposite. But, when you buy a gun on a nics check, serial numbers are not given to the atf. The firearms information is recorded in the dealers bound book and on the 4473 form, and both are retained by the dealer in their business records.
When a nics check is called in the only question asked by the “examiner” at the call center is “type of transaction and firearm?”. Answer is “Sale of Long Gun”. That is it. Period. All they know if that a long gun is being sold. They dont even ask how many. It could be 25 long guns or just one.

The only time that serial number would ever be communicated to the atf by that dealer is in the event of a trace. Which means the gun would have to have been used in a crime or stolen/recovered. The atf works FORWARD from the manufacturer to current day. And with a gun as old as a Parker... they wouldn't get very far.

That statement is absurd.
I am quite familiar with many advanced collectors of Colt and Winchesters. I am confident that none of them limit their interests to 'antique only' firearms.
No point in considering Henry's, and 1866 guns, or 1876 guns as none of them were made post 1898, however there were plenty of 1873, 1885, 1886, 1892, 1894 and 1895 guns made well into the 20th century.
Anyone who even casually follows the results of nearly any good auction company today, is able to see countless numbers of guns selling well into six figures, with no correlation to the BATF determantion of antique status

This caveat does nothing to diminish the flaw in your first statement, other than to say YOU would 'opt' for the gun without paperwork.

I don't think collectors of Winchesters and Colts limit themselves to only pre 1899 firearms, but there is definitely a premium for these vs a similar but post 1898 gun. About 20%. I know Winchesters and Colts far better than side by sides and this is nearly gospel.

Yes, all true. But you never know someday if bound books get into the wrong hands, whatever that may be.

Okay, at the very least, I can have an antique firearm delivered to my door and not have to pay an FFL fee and can use that money instead for a bottle of Jack Daniel's.

If you want to have it shipped to your door C&R license for $30 for 3 years and you can buy any gun more than 50 years old.

If one buys 5 or so guns over 3 years is it worth it for the paperwork? I don't know as I've never looked into it and not something I considered before.

Brian's post reminds me of a funny story. The Parker Research Committee was hard at work at Ilion in 1998 when a Remington employee came into the archives and gave us a telegram or cable from an Italian police department. They implied a Parker shotgun had been used in a crime and asked if Remington could help them in their investigation. The Remington employee just said, "Can you guys handle this?" I assume Mark Conrad or Ron Kirby took the appropriate action. The serial number was very early but I can't remember whether we found the gun in the records. I still have a copy of the communication in my files. The week we were in the archives, we were asked to reply to any Parker related correspondence that came to Remington during that time.

Once again, I can't agree with you. You use words like "definitely" and "gospel" like there's no other opinion that matter's and that makes me suspect of your whole thought process. I have been collecting Colts, Winchesters, and Parkers, and ONLY those three makes for over 60 years. In my 72 years, I've met some of the best known collectors, and learned from each of them. Knowing what and how they have, and still do buy guns makes nothing but good common sense. There ain't no gospel according to anyone I know that says a pre '99 gun of equal condition is worth 20% more than a post '99 gun. Spend enough time behind your table at the Baltimore gun show, arguably the preeminent antique arms show in the east and you'll know this to be true.