Wood finish on early 1893 Parker GH?
 

Any advice - thoughts on the wood finish to use on an early Parker? Current finish is a J. Howe BLO variety over whatever was the original finish that I will be removing along with decades of hand oils and general grime. Shellac? Oil/ varnish? I like a rubbed in finish. The gun will see plenty of field work. Must stand up to Hawthorn, multiflora rose, Locust. Where the wild things hide.

Should you have a similarly dated GH that was well cared for over time post a photo of the stock. This will help me get an idea of the color and patina.

Thanks.

Finish gently cleaned with Murphy's Oil Soap and ammonia wash. Handling stains removed with oxalic acid treatment. Finish not stripped with a commercial stripper. So now I can see that this 1893 Parker GH shipped from the factory with light walnut without any stain such as alkanet applied. Most likely finished with shellac.

Before cleaning
https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/61844_600x400.jpg

After cleaning
https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/61831_600x400.jpg

I would recommend Timber Luxe.

www.timberluxe.com





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Dean, thanks. I have read quite a bit about Timberluxe and I will look into the product.

I mentioned shellac in my earlier post, but I am not convinced of my own point. Would Parker use shellac on wood as its chosen finish given how poor this finish is in terms of providing protection especially to outdoor elements? Hmm??

Original finishes were shellac. Unless on higher grade guns which were oil or unless an order specified oil.

The idea of a good shellac finish having issues with water is an old wives tale. It is not true.

To prove this to myself, I have taken wood finished with shellac and let water sit on it for over a day to no ill effect.

All three of mine are french polish. From left 1901 VH, "P" Grade or Grade 1 Hammer 1884, 1891 GH.

Cameron, I am with Brian on the use of shellac. Mahogany boats were finished in shellac and they had to withstand the elements 6 months at a time. Parkers were done in orange shellac while I BELIEVE the boats were finished in clear.

Please note that french polish, for those that dont know, is a shellac finish.

Brian, Craig and Quigley97

Thanks. Shellac fits with the finish I find on my Parker. Do you think that Parker used the more time consuming French polish approach? As I do not own the Parker Story volumes do you know if the authors get into the wood finishing process used by Parker in the early period? I have searched through my DGJ index and reader Vol I and II and cannot find an article that goes into the technical aspect for Parker wood finishing processes.

Hello Cameron.

The late Dr. Austin Hogan, 7-year editor of Parker Pages prior to 2011, and oft times contributor of articles about various aspects of the Parker Gun, wrote and published two successive articles on original stock finishes. The first, "Some Reflections on Stock Finishes" (Parker Pages 1999, Issue 1) and later reprinted in Parker Pages 2017, Issue 3 and the second "More Thoughts on Stock Finishes" (Parker Pages 2000 Issue 4) was also reprinted in Parker Pages 2017, Issue 3 and both of these articles pretty much discuss the techniques and methods, including French polish, that Parker Brothers employed in finishing their stocks.





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My 1893 GH Parker 12b
https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/61546_600x400.jpg

Thanks, Dean. I will certainly get these articles. As I am new to the PGCA, I will get the cd.

That CD is such a wonderful resource you will never be sorry you bought it.

Thank you fir supporting the PGCA.





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just noticed that your gun was a 12 b what kind of shells do you shoot in this gun...good looking gun... charlie

Black powder using traditional 2 3/4 dram (70g 2F Olde Eynsford) load with components (over powder card, lubed fibre wads, 1oz shot, overshot card, roll crimped) in 2 1/2" brass (Magtech) hulls or same load in roll crimped Federal paper. Federal paper is trimmed to get a good roll crimp. This is my primary hunting load.

Also use low psi 700-X 24gram loads in straight walled hulls such as Fiocchi or Estate using BP REX wads CB4100 WJ wads. I also have a 1oz load with American Select and CB4118 wad. Smokeless loads are all under 6000 psi.

There are also a couple of low psi loads using Clay Dot.

I hope this helps.

I load my own shells.

Cameron here are a few pics of my GH fore end as asked.

Thank you. These photos are quite helpful.

Looking at these photos I am inclined to think the finish is amber or perhaps garnet shellac without any other color added. I have read the excellent piece by Woodreaux on classical finishes (thanks for a fine piece) and the material by Ken61 concerning shellac. These do use alkanet red and Brian Dudley states he will sometimes add this in the final finish application. I am trying to decide whether I should add color to my shellac as I refinish my Parker forend.

As I am not familiar with using shellac as a gun wood finish I would appreciate any other views on this idea. My experience is limited to using orange shellac finishing on shooter gun boxes and such made from lighter wood such as maple with a final application of clear wiping varnish to provide a protective layer.

French Polish is just shellac with a little oil applied to the pad to keep the pad from sticking to the wood when applied. Oil and shellac don't mix so only the shellac goes on the wood except if you use too much oil, Shellac dries almost immediately so when you complete one application, you can start again. Many applications can be put on in one day. Search the Internet for how to do french polish. I use amber shellac from Bullseye which can be thinned if needed. If you use flakes it needs to be cut down for the proper thickness.

Austin's personal instructions to me to "Finish gunstocks the Parker way".
Put 1" of shellac in a bottle and 1/8" of linseed oil on top. add a couple drops of japan drier.
Make a round pad with some wool the size of a nickel, cover with pure cotton cloth (T-shirt type). Fold pad a little larger than mouth of the bottle, shake bottle and apply to pad.
Rub finish onto stock and keep rubbing until dry (about 10 to 15 seconds). some people like a little oil on pad as well.
Ratio of oil to shellac is not critical but too much oil will give a oily surface. Oil can and should be wiped off after shellac dries.
Supposedly if you thin shellac to say 50 50 with alcohol you will get shinier surface.

I have a copy of the article that Austin Hogan wrote. The shellac and the oil DO mix. I use Bullseye Amber Shellac and did not add the jap dryer. Very easy to use and what you mix seems to last a long time. I use a small jelly jar and provided you keep the the area on top of the jar clean you will be able to use it for some time. If the top is not clean you will never be able to open the container again.

Thanks for your collective assistance. This information is very useful and much appreciated.

As the original finish on the Parker stock is shellac is it correct to think that after cleaning the surface I can refresh the finish by applying new coats of fresh shellac directly to the old finish as the new shellac will dissolve into the existing shellac? (Photo of stock on page 2)

I have watched a dozen videos on shellac as a wood finish and the technique of French polish, each with individual expertise differences. Most use linseed quite sparingly to ease the padding process but none have added linseed oil or any oil directly to the shellac. One finishing expert used mineral spirits in his padding process stating it flashed off quicker and did not require the use of naptha to remove the oil between coats. All produced a beautiful finish on whatever piece they were displaying.

This is why these projects are so much fun. I have owned this Parker for over 30 years, accounted for untold numbers of woodcock, grouse and pheasants and yet I am learning more about the Parker shotgun and enjoying every exchange here on the PGCA forum.

CHE, linseed oil? Is this raw or boiled? Thanks.

more info on shellac finish ?
 

Right up front please to not take the following as evidence that I am being contrary to some of the advice provided here. I am completely new to this 'period specific' wood finishing using shellac. I appreciate the time spent to reply to my inquiries. Now to my current thoughts and questions.

I am about to begin the processes of putting an orange shellac finish on my 1893 Parker G forend. My goal is to create a finish that is close to the original as I am able to accomplish. An added demand is that this finish come close to matching the original untouched finish on the stock. To this end I have accomplished the following. Mixed my own shellac from flakes in the these cuts and colors: 1# Plantina, 2# Blonde, 1# Orange, 1# Garnet. These are ready to be used if needed. I have BLO available, but not raw LO. I have Japan Dryer available if needed. I have caster oil available if needed.

After extensive reading I have decided that the shellac application technique of french polish is not required to apply the shellac. I will use a pad as in the french polish technique but will not be building up a gloss finish. Also, I will not be filling the pores in the walnut. I examined the wood on the stock and the forend before starting the project and I see no evidence that filling the pores was part of the original wood finish process.

I have read the two articles by Austin Hogan (thanks to Mike McKinney for getting the Parker Pages USB to me in a timely manner) and I have consulted my gunstock finishing library works by Newell, Dunlap, Mills and Barnes, Howe, and modern texts by Flexner, Jewitt, Dresdner and Allan and the excellent collected work by Woodreaux (over on the DoubleGun forum). This is what I have gleaned to date.

Newell recommends the addition of caster oil (non-drying oil) as a plasticizer to the shellac. Note. There is a thread on the Wood Web discussing Shellac and Linseed Oil wherein one contributor suggests that using a drying oil such as Linseed as an additive (other than a padding lubricant) is not to be recommended. https://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_ba..._Finishes.html

Mills and Barnes recommend the one-time application of raw linseed to the stock prior to the application of shellac. I see no evidence that the wood was colored with linseed oil prior to application of shellac.

Dunlap gives his favorite technique of applying BLO to the wood following by shellac immediately and the use of the hand rather than a pad. I do not think this to be applicable either.

Howe has a strong distaste for "that orange shellac, colorless, dreadful, frightful looking, ... disfiguring looking finish" In a word awful, do not use.

Flexner, Dresdner, Jewitt each recommend mineral oil as a lubricant. None recommends a direct mixing of linseed oil, raw or boiled, in any proportion with the shellac.

As a last bit of information I have watched Brian Dudley's work on his FB page and these videos show fantastic finish work on Parker and Lefever wood. However this high level of grain filled finish is not what is called for on my project. Brian does state that he prefers to apply the finish to the wood prior to recutting the checkering.

If you have direct experience with using shellac as a finish on a Parker or any other makers wood and not building up to a french polish technique finish and could provide a photo or two of the Parker wood I would be appreciative. Reaction and thoughts on what I have posted here are welcome. Thanks to CHE and Quigley97 (Parker forend photos) for advice similar to Dunlap but without the mixing of BLO and shellac.

What did you use to dissolve your shellac flakes, Cameron?

SRH

Stan, I used Kleen Strip Green denatured alcohol. MSDS show the ethanol content at 80-90%. This is higher than the regular Kleen Strip product.

Thanks Cameron.

SRH

I never had good luck with dissolving my own flakes. I always had issues with solids and sediments in the mix. Even with straining multiple times.

Zessner Bullseye shellac is the same formulation that it has been for the last century. And it is always a consistent a homogeneous mixture.

Cameron if your desire is to duplicate factory finish then begin to think like the factory would have done it. I am not sure exactly the process Parker used in the factory but I do know L.C.Smiths process. Low grade Smihs , perhaps 18-20 per day, were brought to the finish room where each received 3 coats of a quick drying COMMERCIAL finish, then dried overnight. From there they went to the checkers. Blemishes and any polishing were dealt with before delivery. Gunsmihs did not build these guns but rather specialized craftsmen and craftswomen did.

But, also remember that they were built by humans in a production setting in rather crude condition by todays standards. And none of them figured that 100 years later collectors would be fretting over every little detail.

Brian, in an earlier reply you said that you sometimes used alkanet in a final finish. How do you do this? Add alkanet as a lubricant in the final coats with shellac? Incorporate it in small amount of shellac? On my project I am finding that I need a bit more red in the finish and less brown tone and I am looking at alkanet as a source for the reddish tone.

I do not use alkanet in the final finish.

Brian, I was referring to your earlier statement (on the other thread) on adding alkanet in your sealer coat. My mistake as to using it in the final coat. I assumed you were referring to shellac, but perhaps not. Apology offered.

To my question. Are you using alkanet root applied directly to the wood prior to the sealer coat (if shellac) or are you using it as a lubricant when applying the sealer coat. Or ???

To be quite frank, I feel as if you are seriously overthinking the topic of wood finishing for your forend project. It sounds like you have done an awful lot of research and inquired a lot to this point.
There comes a time when one must act on something and just get it done. Make it happen and learn from their own experiences.

I agree with Brian, just make it happen. Too many questions for me. I've asked questions starting out, but I'm self taught. I've learned from my mistakes and my achievements. I'm a perfectionist, if I don't like something, I'll start over. Good luck Cameron!

Boiled linseed oil is not boiled. It's just linseed oil with Japan drier added.

Ok, I have achieved a really pleasing shellac finish on my forend wood and recut the checkering with the Parker mullered border. Now I have yet one more question on finish. Woodcock season here in Ohio is always accompanied by wet conditions. On at least a few days outings the forend wood will be handled by wet shooting gloves for certain. Will the shellac finish be up to these conditions? Opinions on adding a final finish such as a wiping varnish?

Checkering recut with mullered border.

https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/62402_600x400.jpg