checkering tool(s) for Trojan checkering
 

What checkering tool or tools would one need to re-cut both fore end and wrist checkering on a Trojan (16 ga)?

them wood working boys will jump in here shortly...good luck...charlie

Careful Allen - the Trojans were originally checkered in a fairly coarse LPI with flat top diamonds. A used Trojan may appear to have almost worn off checkering but that is often not the case. Look at a high condition original to see what the checkering should look like before starting.






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Im sure others will know better ...but personally I would use a 60 degree single line cutter ,and a viener to finish the edges and bottoms ...take your time with lots of breaks if its your first Allen.
Good luck ,
Chris

[QUOTE=chris dawe;194238 ...take your time with lots of breaks if its your first Allen.
[/QUOTE]

Chris is quite right. And perhaps not right enough. If you've never done chequering before, and this is your gun, I'd think twice about doing it at all. Frankly, the odds are about 10-to-1 that you will make a very bad mistake.

A pro like Chris can do the job perfectly. And probably within your budget.

Very kind of you to say John ,thank you .
Chris

Thanks Gents all. Looking at a 16 Trojan w/dolls head that one of our local shops has up for short money. Gun is tight, no dents, bluing mostly gone but no dings. Stock is quite dark and checkering is faint to the eye but could be that stock after de-oiling will show more checkering. forend is in same condition. 26 inch barrels too. good little grouse and woodcock gun after its cleaned up.

If the lines are left and have some feel to them, a 60 degree cutter is all you need to deepen the lines. Cutting the proper borders requires a separate concave cutting tool in combination with others. Proper border work on a Parker makes all the difference between just checkeing it and checkering it right.

However, heed others advice and proceed with caution if you are considering doing it yourself. Since you do not have tools, i take it you have little to no experience cutting or recutting checkering. Not that anyone cant do it, but some just cannot do it. Why try and find out when you can spend relatively short money and have the work done right.


If you insist on trying your hand, pick up a Gunline starter set in 16 lines per inch and spend some time scratching at some junk stocks before trying on something that you want to let out in public.

Allen, like you I wanted to give a try at checkering. The first thing that I determined was the lines per inch on the stock. Then I trolled the internet and bought a starter set of Dem-Bart tools. There are lots of sets out there in number of tools and prices. My starter stock was 16LPI and I had trouble finding it. Use the guide that comes in the kit and start on a piece of soft wood to get the feel of cutting before moving on. Start from a baseline and continue to work from it. Buy additional heads so that you have a sharp tool, start slow and don't try to cut the line the complete depth on one pass. I take plenty of breaks because when my hand gets tired I tend to make mistakes. The work that you see posted by others here is not done in 5 minutes. Good checkering to you and hopefully others will chime in with tips and support.

Thanks all for the good advice that I shall follow should I decide to pick up this Trojan 16. I carved and made my own decoys for years and I'm familiar with working with wood. I'll take it slow, one step at a time but I know I can do this. Thanks again to all.

Allen, here's a link to a gun I bought a couple of years ago and one of the photos shows a lot of the grip checkering...

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Gun-L...ordsPerPage=80

No, I didn't pay anything near what they were asking :whistle: but it's a nice one and similar to the one you're describing. Good luck!

Allan, nice looking 16! The one I looked at locally....the stock is practically black and the checkering is either so worn down or just filled with crud. If I were to purchase it, the first order of business is to strip and de-oil the stock. Once that's done, I'd have a better idea of how much good checkering remains. Bear in mind that I have several Trojans now that I'm holding for 2 grandsons when they become of age when they can handle these) Having just recently refinished one of those stock, I'm familiar with the checkering. The wood on the Trojan 16 I looked at the other day is just so dark with whatever, it's difficult to tell what shape the original checkering is in. The wood didn't seem punky - not at least from the outside, once the frame is off though we'll know what the inside condition is. I may run over tomorrow and take a look as well as get some pics of it with the shop's permission and post here. Thanks again for your post
t

Well I went back over to the gun shop today to take a second look at this Trojan 16 as well as take some pics to post here. The ser # of this 16 is 198098 and lists in the book as having 28 inch barrels. I measured the barrels and they're about 1/16 of an inch shy of 28 inches and the roll stamping runs right to the end of the barrel. So, someone has shaved a minor amount off the end of the barrels but I swear I could still see a keel. Didn't have my choke gauge with me but suspect very little effect on the original chokes with so little taken off the barrel ends. Ends probably got dinged up somewhere along the line. Interior barrels are clean. Gun has just a hair of play, barely noticeable with forend off. No play with forend on. But bottom line for me is that however slightly shaved, it's not original enough for me to make an offer. If anyone wants to pursue this, pm me.
Nw let's see if my pics from my cell will post. Note pics of checkering. Wood may appear much lighter in the pic than to the naked eye.

More pics

last but not least

I would not be sure a 16th of an inch means they were trimmed

Are you suggesting the barrels may have been 30" to begin with?






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Dean, Allan feels the barrels have been cut because they are 1/16" shorter than the book listed length of 28".

Trimmed, sure - but cut? From what? Thirty inches?.... not likely, it's a sixteen gauge Trojan. Twenty-six or twenty-eight - those were the standard lengths for a sixteen gauge Trojan. My bet is trimmed due to muzzle damage.






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I seem to remember a discussion here about rib matting and barrel lengths not exactly matching the book. A fraction off and matting going to end of rib. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is not a clear indication that these particular barrels were trimmed does it?

I still believe that, given the barrels are 1/16' shorter than the 28" the records indicate, coupled with the fact that the matting runs off the end of the rib and that scant few, if any, Trojans were made with barrels longer than 28", this set of barrels was trimmed due to damaged muzzles - not cut and I don't believe they left Meriden shorter than exactly 28". (There are many examples of barrels being longer by up to 1/4" or so than the factory records indicate, but I have yet to see one shorter, from the factory, than the records indicate.)

But that's just one man's opinion - others may differ.





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Not doubting your observation, frankly, I agree wholeheartedly. Just bringing other possibilities to the forefront. To pass on this gun for such a small imperfection, the price must have had a lot to do with it. After all, the condition observed was not bad but far from high. Just MHO. Thanks

The price was $1700 but my sense was it could go for less.

I agree with Dean. I think the barrels were trimmed off due to some muzzle damage. Again, if anyone is interested in more info, pm me. I'm not pursuing this 16. The wood on this gun is solid, no chips, cracks. Original butt plate intact. Just needs to be stripped and refinished. Barrels ring and mirror bright inside.

I just looked at your picture of the muzzles pointing up and I enlarged it as much as it would go (two clicks) and as we discussed on the phone yesterday Allen, you can see the termination of the matting just before the end of the rib where the matting machine was lifted and the matting lines come to a somewhat rounded point. As I said in our conversation, on original uncut barrels there is almost always some indication of the matting ending - so, this one was trimmed back to the termination line across the rib, but not back into the matting.






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I have seen truely uncut Trojan barrels or untrimmed barrels that look exactly like these.

The location of the bead looks right and does not suggest any trimming to me.

Did anyone think they might have just been made that way?

Remember that Trojans were not as finely finished as the other grades. This carries on to the rib matting termination as well.

Nope.... The records show twenty-eight inches and this set is 27 15/16"






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Sometimes i dont know why I bother... :banghead:

Dean, what do you think of the checkering on this 16? Assuming you stripped and de-oiled the wood, do you think enough checkering would show to skip re-cutting or would you go ahead and have it re-cut. This is just a hypothetical scenario - and I have no interest in the gun. I'm interested in your take on this.

Allen, in my HO this gun could use a complete refinish, checkering included.... but that's a decision for the next owner.






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Hello Brian, if I may ask....how long have you been working as a gunsmith? Just curious to know your background and experience for future reference. Would you share it with us please?

FWIW, this is the end of my Trojan 16's rib. It is 25.9975" away from the breech face after having been very slightly dressed off to flatten a couple of dings on the end faces. (The matting ends 0.131" before the muzzle face)

Attachment 48380

:eek: Should I be worried?

:corn:

Allan, I don't think you should be worried at all. But what I find interesting is this. Compare the positions of your front bead sight to the position on the 16 that I posted. They're not in the same position. Why would this be if both guns are/were 28 inch barreled guns as the book says.

Allen, mine's 26" and no, I'm not really worried about a couple of thou ;]

Edit: I took another look at your photo and I think that Brian's right. It doesn't look as if the matting cuts through to the face of the rib the way it would if having been cut and each squiggle (technical term) seems to end just prior to the face.

Allan, 26" or not, do you see the difference in where the front bead sights are positioned along the roll stamp and in relation to the terminal end of the roll stamp? On the 28 inch 16, the sight is much further back along the roll stamp than is the bead sight positioned on the roll stamp of your 26 inch barreled 20. Assuming that the bead sight on the 28 inch 16 is where Parker put it ( there's no indication on the roll stamp that it's been moved back) I'm wondering if bead sight positioning along Trojan Roll Stamps on their Trojan guns was not a highly controlled procedure - anyone have any thoughts?

Scaling off the photos, it looks as if your bead's front edge is 1.4 bead-diameters back from the muzzle face while mine is a bit more than 1.5. This would be consistent with the 1/16" trim you measured, placing it closer to the muzzle now.

:rotf: I can't even bring myself to ask.....................

Yes, I need to ask one..............What was the temperature?

Asking that question for future reference is a moot point. Since the last dealings between yourself and I solidified, for me at least, the fact that we will not be doing any sort of business together in the future.

Heh! I used my handy backyard CMM, stabilized to current ambient condx (42F and 99% RH). :whistle:

Wow!