New member has a Ithaca Lewis project
 

Hi all,

I just finished posting my introduction in the new member section.

I have a project that I am looking forward to but really need help! I do believe the members of PGCA have a lot more to share than what is in my pedestrian head!

My project is a Lewis, serial number 120***, built 1906. It was traded for supplies from a Native Canadian man(first Nations) at my family's Hardware store in the Okanagan Valley, British Columbia, about 80 years ago.

It is just beautiful, but not functioning...

The metal is great, no pitting, shiny barrels, and the furniture is almost perfect, no splits, cracks or repairs.

But the receiver sure has a problem. It will not cock upon breaking the barrels. I took it down, almost. I cannot get the barrel break lever nor the barrel catch off. Under the lever's screw, I can see it is fitted to a cut in the shape of a square. The square is around the outside of the lever screw hole. I don't know if the lever pops off around that square or it is all one piece. I think it may be all one piece, but that's just a hunch.

Everything else is off (firing pins and springs, hammers, sears, triggers and plate, mainsprings, all parts of the safety, the stock, etc.), but not the above stated assembly below the lever and it's connection down to the barrel 'catch', that slides back and forth with the lever.

I would love to complete the dismantle. Can anyone help with the last part of my take down?

I will also be looking for at least 4 screws; the 2 firing pin holder screws, both were in pieces upon removal (metal fatigue?), and the 2 hammer holding screws, which I buggered both up upon removal. I will most likely have to make my own screw replacements. Does anyone know what the pitch of screws were on American double guns of that era were?

Thank you all in advance for any help with parts (screws) and take down (break lever and barrel catch assembly).

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...a845387efe5557

You might get your answers here at the Ithaca Forum on Shotgunworld

It has been a few years since I have broken a Lewis down and I know I could do it if in hand, but cannot remember off the top of my head.
All I remember is a Lot of parts and tricky flat mainsprings.

After removing the top lever screw, you may just have to put a small punch inside of the threaded hole and tap that piece out so that the top lever can be pulled out.

Dan,

I think that I can help you out, if you have yet to solve the problem. I posted an album of the complete disassembly of a Lewis model and am currently finishing up a guide to the entire process.

As for your Top Lever assembly (see photos):

Once you've removed the top lever pin (the threaded pin that affixes the top lever to the cam) you will need to find a pin punch that fits into the tapped hole on top of the cam. Strike the cam downward just enough for the square post to clear the top lever and the top lever will slide out to the rear.

Then, from the underside of the receiver, punch out the cam TOWARD THE TOP. ***Don't try to continue punching the cam down through the bottom of the receiver. It is meant to be punched down just enough to clear the top lever, that is all.***

...to the hammer pins' dimensions, I recorded all dimensions for pins, screws, springs, etc... but don't have them handy at the moment. I will send you a PM when I can grab my notebook.

Dan, I just reread your original post and wanted to clarify something. Before removing the top lever you must remove the locking bolt assembly. Please do not attempt to strike the cam while it is still engaged with the locking bolt straddle block.

Alcaviglia,

Thank you so much for your great reply. I am sorry this reply is so late. I had typed a reply back on Saturday but I wasn't properly logged in and nothing was posted.
I did manage to get the lever, cam and locking bolt off a few weeks ago. I wish I had your information back then, it would have saved me so much time on my work bench.
I [U]did[U] almost continue knocking the cam downwards, but luckily I was tapping softly and only just made contact with the receiver framework. No damage done. Then on a hunch I turned it around and tapped it upwards and voila, it came out.
I did remove the locking bolt beforehand, fortunately.
After a thorough scrubbing of all the parts and inside of the receiver, I started the task of reassembly. Easier said than done. this is the first time I have taken down any of my guns that have a V spring! And being a double barrel, it has two!
I cannot for the life of me compress either of them far enough to get the hammer(s) in place and pivot screws back in. HELP!
I'm sure if I had a third hand, the task would not be too hard, but I am working alone, and getting suficiant compression on the V spring doesn't leave me with a free hand to position the hammer properly so as to get the pivot pin in place.
Any help with my new challenge will be greatly appreciated!
I think the way to go will be to use a vise or clamp or both to hold the spring down, but as of yet haven't found a position or set up that doesen't just slip downwards on the spring.
I am also worried that I am putting too much pressure on the forward screw that holds the V spring down at the narrow part of the "V". I think it (they) are starting to bend slightly as I try to push down on the wide part of the spring(s).
I look forward to your sage words of help.
Dan.
P.s. Your photos are great, my camera is out of order and my cell phone camera won't take a clear enough shot to post.

Dan, no worries, it's my pleasure.

I recently posted a reply to a different thread that explains how to install the mainsprings. It is in this forum under the title "New Project: Ithaca Crass". The entire post may prove helpful to you, but the install section is on the last or next to last page of the thread (with photos).

Any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I have a few tips regarding the trigger/safety assembly that may be of some help. I'm finishing up the part of the tutorial that includes proper timing of the locking bolt. When I'm finished with it, I'll send you a PM in case you are interested.

Alcaviglia,
I just looked at the photos, you are a genius! I am not at my work bench but will be tomorrow. I will try to walk through your photos and instructions. If I get stuck, I'll surely be knocking on your Internet door again! I noticed that the forward screw for the Crass model seems to go 'through' the front of the mainspring. It would be nice if the Lewis had that as well.
When I get to the triggers and safety, I'll keep in touch with you if I bump into yet another challenge.
Regarding the screws that I want to replace (almost all of them!), do you have any sources of where I might look for replacements? I have died a few blanks, but the pitch seems a little off (mabe I should do a clean up tap on my receiver threads?) and the blanks that Brownells sells have slightly different heads on them and will need a fair bit of grinding for each. Original screws would be so much nicer...
Thanks,
Dan

Dan, I very much appreciate the sentiment.

Though posted on a thread regarding a Crass model, the shotgun in my photos is of a Lewis (1901). They are so similar to one another. The Crass, however, is designed so that the sear pins screw in from the outside of the receiver. On the Lewis models, they are internal.

I think you are referring to the mainspring strain pins (the little guys at the front of the receiver). While Ithaca may have made some changes/improvements over the years, I believe they are the same. Perhaps it is difficult to see in my photos, but the strain pins do "hang out there", so to speak. Not the most secure, but it's tight enough in there that the springs can't torque very far, let alone rock down into the trigger plate.

Onto the Brownell's "blanks": simply put you are correct. They are quite a bit of work - about the same as just starting with new stock, but you are much better off finding replacements elsewhere. metals4u sells some pretty good stock if you are going to work them yourself. They come in much longer lengths than you'd need, but they're ready to go.

A couple of ideas on original replacements: gunpartscorp.com or hit up the Ithaca Lovers forum on shotgunworld.com, I would suspect someone has a few that may part with (for a price, typically). I'm sorry to say that I don't have any of those pins handy.

I have yet to locate my now grossly illusive notebook containing the dimensions of everything on the shotgun. But, as I recall, the pitch on those pins was a bit "in-between", using TPI. If yours got a bit tweaked on removal, cleaning them up may help. Of course, it can't really hurt anything if you are considering turning new ones to the fit of the receiver. At the very least, my dimensions will get you close. How you finish the radius on the head will be up to you.

...oh, and I meant to ask you earlier, does your shotgun have steel or pattern-welded (Damascus) barrels?

Oh, that was a Lewis receiver in the photos? My eye's could use a tune up! There was a time when I probably would have seen the strain screw in the photo... Love getting older.
Yes, the Brownell screw blanks are not the prettiest things in the world. As I recall, I have been cutting with 6-40 and 10-32 'fine' dies. I don't really want to touch the receiver with a tap. One can replace screw blanks but not receivers! I'll just play around with the adjuster on my dies till they turn into the receiver more smoothly. Thanks for the web sites.
I'll keep you posted on my progress.

No problem. gunpartscorp does have the hammer pins (though they call them screws). They are listed in the parts list for the Crass model. Should be the same pins. Regardless, Numrich has a great return policy if they don't fit. Part #1007650. Good luck, and please do keep me posted.

On the barrel question, they are fluid steel. I am preparing them for a new rust bluing. They are polishing up quite nicely, I'm down to about 400 grit so far. I will go down to about 2000 grit, I get a very pretty finish when I really polish my barrels up. I know many people stop at about 400, but I just can't agree. I was going to leave the gun original but it just seemed a good candidate for a full restoration.

Well, where did that month go? Boring details took me away from my guns!

Al, I din't know if you are logging in lately, but I just got back to my Ithaca Lewis project and have decided to put the cleaned out action back together again just to do a function test. The refinishing of the steel and furniture will be continued shortly. I have some time back on my side for this project. I already have run into a reassembly challenge. I have the barrel locking bolt with the spring, the bolt straddle , the cam, the retaining screw and the top lever, all in place. However, I don't think I know how and where to position the straddle block and it's holding screw to the barrel bolt. I tightened the straddle screw where I thought it should be and the top lever works but is quite left of center in the closed position and seems to have too much distance to travel before I see the lever's barrel latch clear the gap.

Is there a procedure to aligning and fixing the straddle block in place?

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

By the way, cleaned and sanded parts (all internals of the receiver and the barrel) did very well in transmission fluid. Not even a hint of rusting and the oil is so light, I could get right too work on all parts with just a little wipe...

Hope all reader's Ithacas are in tip top shape.

Dan

Dan,

I haven't been logging in as much lately, inclement weather here did some damage to my house that has kept me quite busy (30" snow + weeks of sub-zero temps at night = ice dam, leaking facia/roof/walls, sagging beams, and lots of FUN).

The part of the reassembly procedure to which you are referring is the timing of the locking bolt. I'll try to get that to you tomorrow in its entirety, but until then:

the first thing you want to do is loosen the straddle block retaining screw so the bolt can move freely. Then, remove the locking bolt spring retaining pin to relieve the compression on the spring. At that point, you'll want to move the locking bolt toward the rear so that the surface that contacts the bite in the barrel lug (or lump, if you prefer) is barely visable through the receiver - if the bolt is not moving freely: 1) check that the straddle block screw is loose enough; 2) tap the bolt rearward with a brass or nylon punch (a section of dowel rod will also do...about 3/8" in diam.).

*note: the contact surfaces on the bite and the bolt are tapered to account for wear over time. Inspecting the bolt surface should show you at what position it engages the bite (assuming you didn't polish that off in the cleaning process). That reminds me of another tip regarding the lockup of a double gun. All contact surfaces providing the lockup should be left alone unless there is already a problem with them - no sense in creating looseness where there wasn't any before...fixing that would be a bit more involved than just reassembly.

Okay, now you want to move the toplever to the right and join the barrel set to the reciever. Close the toplever and tap the locking bolt forward until everything is locked up snug. If you'd like to see the taper on the locking bolt and bite, you can "paint" with layout ink, smoke the bite with a candle or lighter, or even a dry-erase marker will do, and check the amount of contact surface.

At that point the rest should be pretty self-explanatory. It's really a game of give and take, getting the timing right.

As for toplever position, check the top side of the straddle block and you should find a dovetailed piece in which the hole that receives the tooth on the cam is located. That piece can be moved left or right on the straddle block to change how far forward or rearward the straddle block must be to engage the cam. That can also make available a bit more linear travel for the locking bolt, if you find yourself running out before the straddle block hits the inside of the receiver (which it should not have to do in order to release the barrels - if it does, make an adjustment to prevent it. That will eventually move the straddle block and you will have to perform a half-disassembly just to open the shotgun again.).

Al,
That was a great reponce. I am not at my workbench at the moment but wanted to get back to you. I will fuddle around with it in the morning but I'm not exactly sure what you were saying that I should mark (as a referrance to what, the amount of barrel contact on the bite at the front of the lug?) and also, I will slide the dovetailed cam tit holder but am reluctant to do that since the lever was once (before I took the receiver apart) lined up nicely to the right of center.
Anyways thanks so much and I hope we can corespond tomorrow.

One should proofread: that should have been 'response' and 'correspond', I believe...
Dan

The following photos should help a bit:

#1 shows tapered surface on locking bolt
#2 shows both tapered surfaces
#3 shows contact between the two
#4 shows the marks left on locking bolt from bite on lug

*note: the marks on photo #4 are difficult to see, but looking for discolorations along a straight line makes them a bit apparent. I added arrows to point them out.

***in case you can't read the undersized text on photo #4 (sorry about that), they say:

"final position of locking bolt on bite of lug"

"first contact with bite on lug"

Excellent photo sequence! I have successfully been able to obtain very satisfactory timing on the locking bolt assembly. Regarding the positioning of my top lever, I found that simply tightening up the cam retaining spring a bit more snugly put the lever in a nice closed position, sitting slightly to the right of center, and a comfortable amount of travel when pushed to the open position. I then reinstalled the bolt spring and the positions stayed where they were. Very pleased. Thanks for the help! I did not get to the point of moving the dovetailed detent on the bottom of the cam, things seem to be lining up without that step.

I now have another pedestrian question about my next reassembly procedure. It should be obvious that this is the first double gun I have taken down! This goes back to an earlier question I posted about getting both of the hammers back in under pressure. Your 'screwdriver lever' photos were perfect, I did a dry run and was able to get the mainsprings to easily move down far enough to be able get the hammers pinned in.

My question though, is, what about the long sear release springs that eventually rest under the same pin (screw) that the middle of the mainsprings sit under. Do I get the hammers attached and under pressure and then later somehow fit those flat sear springs in, or do I somehow get both the mainsprings (V springs) and the flat sear springs under the pin while fixing the hammers in place?

I hope my question was expressed clearly enough to understand. It was a bit wordy.

I hope to get some pictures posted by tomorrow, I have gotten one of my old cameras to take at least marginal shots, I hope they will be viewable on this site.

Do you think my following order of operations is correct, by the way? I am thinking: 1, firing pins in (done), 2, barrel bolt, cam and top lever assembly in place (done), 3, hammers in place and under pressure, (starting at this step, not done), 4, sears in place under pressure, 5, cocking arm(s) in place, 6, triggers and safety assembly put in place in conjunction with one another, and then finally, unless I have left out a step, getting the bolt locking pin and lifter in place and screw in the bottom plate. Am I at least thinking in the right direction?

Sorry for the lengthy post.

Here are a few out of focus pictures of my Lewis project.

Dan,

Glad to hear that the locking bolt turned out well, especially without having to play around with the dovetailed piece.

Your order of operations is pretty close. First, the sear spring pins are the same pins that the cocking bar rock on. So, you first have to place the cocking bar into the receiver. It is far easier to install the sear springs before the sears themselves.

Once the cocking bar and sear springs are installed, raise the rear leaf on the springs and "wedge-in" the sear. The spring pressure will hold it in place. Rock it left to right as you force it forward and it will make it's way into alignment with the hole for the pin. Screw it in place and you're ready to go.

Two other things to mention:

1) The hammers should have a bevel toward the outside to lower the profile in allowance of the firing pin retaining screws. Before installing the hammers, make sure that the screws are in far enough to retain the pins no matter if they rotate (the pins' retaining collars may not be perfectly circular), but not so far that the hammer will strike them, crushing the threads.

2) The trip pin and trip spring are last before seating the trigger plate.

Nice pictures, by the way. And no apologies for length of post required. I'm sure that I have posted twice as much on the subject. Besides, it's a fun project to rebuild/restore a piece of functional art. Especially when it's of American vintage. I read a bit of excitement in what you're doing and can very much appreciate it.

Also, out of curiosity, what are your plans for the finish on the receiver? Leaving it polished as is?

Thanks for some of the clarifications. Yes, I had forgotten that the cocking bar and sears are screwed with the same pin.

No doubt I will be calling on your expertise again. I am also still short one firing pin screw. The missing one has been replaced by a very short 6-40 set screw until a proper one is found or I break down and make make one myself.

Yes, this project is very exciting! I do not usually disturb the original finish on a gun, but this old Lewis just was asking to be brought back to new. I love vintage American crafts and since (very sadly) Ithaca double guns have such a low ceiling on their value unless they are high grade models, it was all a go for a complete strip down.

I plan on rust bluing the barrels once the Houston summer heat and humidity arrive. I will be attempting a high polish finish so there will be many rounds of rusting followed by lots of carding with fine grade wheels. I am looking forward to the challenge. The receiver is still a question, I would love to re case harden it and get some beautiful coloring into it, but my fear of warping may have me just rust blue the receiver as well, we will see. I am looking for reasonable pricing on at least simple engraving (at least to get the basic original engraving sharp again, and maybe even some fancier work if I can find a reasonably priced engraver out there. Any leads from anyone reading this would be so greatly appreciated. Case hardening leads are also very welcome. I know of the famous (read, expensive) guys out there, but maybe there is a working man's case hardener and engraver out there...

...just re-read your earlier post. In case you're pondering what I meant about the location of the sear springs, they rest underneath (on top of if you're looking into the bottom of the receiver) the hammers and are held in place by the threaded pins installed toward the center of the receiver.

Rear leaf rests on hammer, front leaf rests on mainspring...shorter leaf to the rear.

We were typing at the same time... My post shows above your post!

Another note that I keep meaning to mention. I indicated earlier that the main springs in your photos look different than what my Lewis has. I will post a picture tomorrow for you to view. In short, my mainsprings have no 'loop' for the strain screw to slide through, as it seems your's do. Mine are a true 'V', no loop, the strain screw rides over the lower and upper part of the V. I wonder if my mainsprings are original, maybe I should be looking for replacements?

To redoing the case colors, warping could definitely be an issue. If you have the capability, or know someone who does (local machinist will do), machine a block to keep that from happening. If that's the case, I say go for it. Do you have a furnace/kiln that can hold an accurate temperature?

My two cents on bluing: I would rather keep the receiver polished as you have it, than rust blue it. The Lewis that I worked on had been painted back in the 50's or 60's with lead paint. That was a pain in the rear to remove and was not degreased properly back when it was done. The owner didn't want a restoration, only a repair and refinish/checkering on the wood. He wanted the shotgun to have a rust patina to it (which I'm not a big fan of), and given the light but noticeable pitting, I selected a basic antiquing process to recreate the patina. It holds up well, is virtually impossible to screw up, hides quite a few imperfections, protects well, and can look halfway decent by matching the heads of the pins to that color (a little torch-bluing). Your receiver looks nearly, if not entirely, absent of pitting. If it comes down to bluing or polished, I would leave mine polished.

I'm interested to get a look at those mainsprings and am unsure if there were changes to the springs back then. I don't really see a drawback to the design - if they work. However, I wonder how the strain pins would have any impact on the compression of the springs. They wouldn't then prevent the springs from rocking into the trigger plate, nor would they keep the springs from torqueing, at all. As previously noted, it is pretty snug inside the receiver so I doubt it will affect anything.

I'll have to go back and check the earlier posts, but didn't you mention that you had some bent pins on this gun?

Here we go.

Dan,

I'm sure taking a look at the mainsprings will shed some light on this either way, but here's a thought on why your hammers were not cocking in the first place. If the forward leaves of the sear springs are resting on the mainspring strain pins as opposed to the bend in the mainsprings themselves, there may not be sufficient force on the sears. This would prevent the sears from consistently engaging the hammers, so all the cocking bar would be doing is moving the hammers rearward and letting them down again as you close the gun. Needless to say, if/when the sears do catch in this scenario, they could easily disengage from the hammers if the gun is dropped or struck hard enough: discharging the firearm.

If you can, please upload some pictures of the mainsprings.

Additionally, a check to see if the configuration that you are describing has any impact on the hammer position is as follows, but in no way proves that the springs you're describing are wrong:

With the firing pins, return springs, and retaining screws (including your replacement screw) properly installed, install your mainsprings as they were when you disassembled the gun (strain pins, and all). Then seat the hammers. With the hammers at rest (so do not install cocking bar, sear springs, or sears), there should not be any protrusion of the firing pins. The design of the mainspring/hammer engagement should "settle" the hammers in a position to the rear of entirely forward (if that makes any sense). In other words, they rebound a bit. From that position, you can press the hammers forward to make the pins protrude, but when you let go they should come back a bit. Taking note of how this goes with your mainsprings may offer a clue.

Al, A few more pics of the receiver. Let me know what you think about the mainsprings.




https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-R...w276-h207-p-no
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/C5...w276-h207-p-no
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/1r...w276-h207-p-no
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/3Y...w155-h205-p-no
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/Xx...w155-h205-p-no
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/nI...w155-h207-p-no
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/UC...w273-h205-p-no

Yes, those mainsprings look like they'd be off of a hammer gun and/or sidelock. They're pretty similar to a set of springs from an old LC Smith that I used to own. The dimensions look identical. Mostly, it is the squared off end with the sharp grind on the longer leaf that makes me think LC Smith. However, I have never seen the mainsprings from an Ithaca NIG (hammer model). I would think most leaf mainsprings would look nearly identical (LC Smith, NIG, Baker, etc...).

If the sear springs don't produce enough force on the sears using those mainsprings, you'll probably have to replace them.

Try the quick hammer install that I posted above to see if there is anything amiss there. Frankly, I find it strange to have to wedge the bend of the spring between the top of the receiver and the mainspring strain pin.

The verification that the springs are not what are in your Lewis is giving me a strong hunch that I have located the main reason why the gun would not cock when I first got it. I think it is clear now that I am in the hunt for two correct Lewis springs. I can remember back to trying to cock the gun when i got it and with enough (too much) downward force on the barrels, I could get some activity out of the hammers and could get a very light 'click' when I touched off one of the triggers. It seems to all be coming together now.

I will do a quick test as you suggested but I don't want to put too much "strain" on the strain pins. They are new one's from Numrich and I would like to preserve them, they may have been the last two in stock!

Thanks for your input into this! Do you have any ideas besides Numrich, whom I will call tomorrow, of how I can send out the word that I am in the market for two Lewis mainsprings? By the way, Numrich gets things quite mixed up sometimes, I have ordered parts and received quite different things than what was ordered in the past, even for this gun. The firing pin holding screws that they sent me were something completely different.

I agree with you, Dan...cocking problem solved. Now, to get you a pair of correct springs. I made a few calls earlier in the evening when I first saw your pictures of the mainsprings. So far, no dice.

Midwest (MGW) doesn't carry them and neither does Wolff. You can call MiGa Gun Parts and ask for Misty (if I'm recalling her name correctly). I spoke to her a while back regarding parts for a Mossberg and she was above and beyond helpful. Not sure if they would carry something this old, but worth a shot (912.884.5616).

You may also want to try Hoosier. I've picked up a few old Browning parts from them in the past. They get a lot of old parts, you may get lucky there (email:hoosiergw@gmail.com or phone:270.749.2109).

Through the Ithaca Lovers Forum at shotgunworld.com, you can try Walt or Matt (usernames ithacanut and IthacaMatt, respectively), perhaps they can lend a hand or at least keep their eyes peeled - though a "calling all cars" post in that specific forum would be your best bet.

As for Numrich, they have so many gun parts that mis-cataloguing items is quite common. They are currently sold out of mainsprings (which are listed under the Crass model as Mainspring L and R). You may want to check that listing from time to time in case they get a few. Since you have an account there, you can probably add those parts to your "Wish List" and should receive a notification email if/when they are restocked.

I have tomorrow morning off, so I will make a more extensive search for my notebook containing dimensions, if for no other reason than to make sure you are maximizing thread contact on the firing pin retaining screws.

I'll keep you posted if something pops. Please do the same.

Thanks for all the leads. I am pursuing all of them, nothing so far, but I'll keep plugging.

I am wondering if your Lewis is currently assembled. If not, I would like to ask if you could do a tracing of the mainsprings and somehow get those tracings to me. There are many iron workers in the Houston area. I don't know if any of them would do a small job like this or even if any would have the appropriate spring steel to work with, but it might be worth a shot.

I also remember seeing a youtube video of a guy that actually specialized in making v springs from scratch! I have no idea how to locate this video again, I viewed it a long time ago, and I am even just guessing that it was youtube, but it was a video that I viewed on my computer...

I don't know how you could get the tracing to me (if you are able to do them), I am not computer savvy and don't know if you scanned it on a printer and loaded it onto your computer and sent it to me, if it would hold the true size. Maybe you or another computer knowledgeable person reading this thread might know.

I can certainly give you my physical address if all else fails. The post office still exists!

Please let me know about a possible tracing. Thanks so much.

Found the notebook!

Firing pin retaining screw dimensions: 6-40, OAL (average between the two)= 0.175" = 4.45mm.

You may be having trouble due to wear. Most 6-40 plug are made to Thread Class 2A (as these are). If you can find a couple of Class 3A they will have larger minimum diameters across the board (by about a thou). That may help snug them up a bit. Just don't force them too much. Another solution would be to shorten the screw half a turn and turn the screw that extra distance so the slot sits a touch below the outside of the reciever. That may help keep it from working loose due to handling.

The Lewis that these photos, dimensions, etc... are from belongs to a neighbor of my parents. I worked on that gun for him a while ago. In response to the thread where you found the procedure for seating the hammers, I asked him to lend me the gun for a couple of days so as to snap photos and dimension things. Long story short, I don't have it in my possession.

I did a quick sketch and listed critical dimensions of the mainsprings, though. I can draft them up from that just fine. I was thinking yesterday of just offering to make them for you, but remembered that I let my buddy borrow my forge. I could only find 1 fire brick in my shop today and would need several more (to make a little oven) to harden springs of that size - a torch flame is just too small to do it evenly/properly. Of course, having the whole forge would be even better. I'll give him a call tomorrow to see what's going on there.

Most guys capable of making those springs will choose the right stock, but in case you want to give it a try: can't really go wrong using 1070 through 1095. But, you'd need something to use as an anvil or mandrel to get the radius correct, that being imperative as it's the crux of your shotgun's issue.

Anyway, I'll draft the springs regardless (I would need that, too) and send them to you. I can send it as a .pdf or even pop it into Microsoft Word, if you'd like.

If you need parts for Ithaca Lewis actions, contact me, I likely hav what you need.

Great documentation of this project.

great to see your post! I am indeed in need of parts to get my old Lewis functioning again. As you can see in photos on this thread, the mainsprings that were in my gun's action are from another gun. They are, I believe, the main reason that the gun would not cock upon breaking the barrels. 'alcaviglia' has a photo in the album portion of this forum of the parts of a Lewis that he had taken down. With Al's help, I saw the correct type of mainspring and thus confirmed that I need correct Lewis mainsprings.

Please let me know if you have these mainsprings. I am also looking for at least one firing pin retaining screw. I was getting ready to cut one myself but a finished product would be so much better.

Feel free to 'private message' me with transaction details.

Thanks so much. Dan

Back to an earlier aspect of my Lewis restoration, I am looking for input into getting a proper polish onto gun metal. Since I am now on hold until new mainsprings can be found and installed, I have some time to get back to the gun's appearance. Al, I hope you are reading this post, I agree with you that since I have taken the barrels and receiver down to the metal and discovered almost no trace of pitting, that maybe rust bluing is not the only option. I also very much like the idea of a polished finished product. I collect Japanese blades and have grown very found of a highly polished piece of metal.

The steel on both the barrels and the receiver have been at 400 grit for a while. If I am not going to rust blue (barrels) and case harden color (receiver), then I am looking for tips on getting gun metal down to as perfect a finish as I can get. I would be looking to go down to at least 2000 grit and possibly finer. However going this route means that the metal will have to be re sanded at a coarser grit to eliminate some existing tiny pits and tiny scratches that look to be as deep as about 180 grit. If I just continue from my current 400 grit stage, these marks will not go away and will only get more pronounced.

The nice thing about rust bluing and or case coloring is that I could have ignored the imperfections and they would have gone unnoticed.

Are there power sanders that gunsmiths use? Maybe a 'Dremmel tool' sanding attachment or something else a little more robust? I am currently sanding by hand with wet emery cloth. Emery cloth is available to even finer grits than 2000. However hand sanding tends to leave irregular swirls, j hooks, in line scratches and other blemishes.

Another challenge in going back down to a coarse grit is that I will risk removing all engraving, then my "optional" plan to "maybe" look for an engraver, will turn into a necessity and thus added cost. Hmm, what to do? Are there any engravers reading this that are available to do a basic engraving job, this gun is only field grade with minimum engraving, at a price that my limited budget allows? The likes of Mr. Turnbull and his sub contractors are out of my league! Where is that trust fund that never showed up in my life?

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

My apologies for a selfish thread
 

This thread that I started 4 pages (maybe more now) ago has been embarrassingly selfish. I have been a member on numerous other forums and have felt quite contributory. With my lack of knowledge of double guns, I am finding myself asking nothing but questions and not offering anything back to the PGCA.

I do truly thank all respondents to my posts. I do very much plan on offering something back to this forum when I finally run into a topic that I have useful knowledge of. I will be viewing other threads throughout PGCA and be looking for a spot where my two cents will be of value.

In the mean time, thank you to all of you, especially Al Caviglia, for taking me in and offering great expertise and time spent on my behalf.

Thank you!

No worries Dan, it's my pleasure.

I was on a roll a minute ago in response to your previous post and my computer froze as I clicked "post reply", so I'll try and get back into the groove (a bit of 15 yr. old Redbreast should do), rewrite it, and see if I can thoroughly address your polishing questions. It's a long one so here goes:

First, I would suggest hand polishing. Yes, it is time consuming and quite a strain on the eyes, but unless you have a slew of polishing wheels (materials and shapes) and have mastered them all, I would steer clear of buffing wheels, rotary tools, and any type of power sander.

Files make great backing for the abrasive when used on flat surfaces. Just be sure to round off the corners on the file to avoid any accidents. For a radius, I typically use pieces from a gardener's kneeling pad: they are cheap, work great, and are easy to cut into any shape imaginable. A fresh, out-of-the-package kitchen sponge works well, too. They are stiffer like that than they are when wet, but still pliable. Remember that you are removing material so be sure to overlap your passes a little on every radius to reduce the appearance of flats. Additionally, I would leave the water table and barrel flats alone. Maybe a few quick passes at the end, but that's it. If there is bluing on them, especially in the lettering/numbering, use a chemical rust remover and a stiff nylon or soft brass brush.

Take great care around holes and sharp edges. Keep them sharp, especially on the tubes and fences. Any work on the bottom of the receiver should be done with the trigger plate seated. Wouldn't want this thing to look like "franken-gun" when it's completed. And watch the screws/pins, they should be timed forward (North to South, if you will) and never proud.

On to emery cloth, I would think that the imperfections in your polishing thus far could be at least partially attributed to using a cloth-backed abrasive. The emery granules work their way into the cloth (it is far more porous and elastic than most papers) leaving some granules proud to the metal surface. Try a paper-backed abrasive, that may help. Also, I have never been a fan of aluminum oxide abrasives for this kind of work. I typically use paper-backed silicon carbide and a sparing amount of honing oil on my first passes at a new grit. And wear a mask when using it, despite the oil.

Something to note: if you believe that you are looking at pits/scratches on the receiver that sit 180 grit deep, you may have to accept them. Aluminum oxide granules at 180 grit are about 3.5 thousandths of an inch. Without a very expensive piece of ultrasound equipment, you never really know how thick the martensite layer is on the receiver (especially after over 100 years). I've heard of everything from 2 thou up to 8 thou. Removing 3.5, which is a ridiculous amount of work by hand, may not be the best idea regarding corrosion and abrasion resistance down the line.

To engraving, yes, that is the basic Quality 1/1S engraving pattern which I believe was roll stamped on. This would've been done while the receiver was still in it's annealed state, before the hardening. I am not an engraver, but think that they would prefer to recut engraving while the steel is soft. A lot of sharpening on very expensive gravers would be required to make clean cuts otherwise. If you mask the lettering first, and avoid polishing over it until the end, you can preserve much of what is left. If the original engraving being complete and sharp means that much to you, perhaps a legitimate restoration is in order (color case hardening and all).

To barrel prep, I've seen a rifle barrel that was prepared to about 2000 grit. Quite frankly, I didn't see the reasoning behind it. If you are running into polishing imperfections on the barrel set, cross polish with each subsequent grit.

To barrel finish, bluing - that is all. And trigger guard, as well.

As I understand it, you are looking for some type of coin finish to stand in for bluing on the receiver in the absence of case colors (which again, I very much agree with). Bead blasting can be okay, but you'll probably find yourself in a catch-22 with that, and end up redoing everything by hand. Depending on the desired luster, some chemical treatments can also work, but they'll take at least as much time to prepare, apply, neutralize, and remove as you'd have spent hand polishing. Plus, any unforeseen issues that take you away from tending the chemical process can be devastating.

I think that well defines where I come out on hand polishing, and I hope something from this verbose sermon is of some practical use to you.

Also, keep asking questions, it's how you, me, and many others learn. While mankind's greatest resource for information may be the internet, mankind's most valuable resource for knowledge is still people. Luckily, forums like this combine the two quite well, rendering people far more accessible.