no one can tell you what is safe for damascus barrels - condition is everything and will vary. the British proof houses will proof them with modern loads if they pass the preliminary inspection

really - it's not much different than antique fluid steel barrels - how much pitting, have they been honed -

those of us that shoot them do so at our own risk, based on judging the measurements and condition- and our perceived level of self knowledge

They have not been honed and there is some pitting. Thanks for the reply. I guess the question I should’ve asked is what is the load pressure rating for Damascus 10 gauge barrels.

Has your gun been evaluated by a competent to do so gunsmith who deemed it is safe to shoot? What is the chamber length, are you certain it is 2 7/8"? The heaviest 10ga load available at the time your gun was built was most likely 1 1/4 ounce of lead with a velocity around 1150 fps.

The spreadsheet lists all the published and tested 2 7/8" 10ga loadings I could find and their sources noted. No I do not consider all of them safe to shoot in composite barrel guns. There were 10ga double guns produced with fluid steel barrels, notably the Ithaca NID Super Ten that was designed to shoot the heaviest of 2 7/8" 10ga loadings. What a Super Ten will handle and what your gun will handle are different.

Working up the heaviest loading you can find for a near 150 year old gun is unwise and potentially dangerous IMO. A 1 1/4 ounce loading at 1150 fps out of a 10ga will take down any bird provided the choke and shot size are correct and the range is inside 40 yards. Good luck.

I find myself wondering why anyone would actually want to shoot maximum pressure loads in a nice old gun like this, be it a Damascus barreled gun or fluid pressed steel. The wood, especially in the wrist of the stock, is especially vulnerable due to its age and the effects of various external oils and solvents that may have been applied. I certainly wouldn’t subject any of my Parkers to maximum loads, whatever they might be. There is absolutely no sound reason to do so. Heck, every longbeard I have ever killed have been dropped dead with one shot of very reasonable loads of far less than 8,000 p.s.i.





.

No one knows what the load pressure rating for your particular barrels are. That is impossible to know in that you say there is pitting present without knowing the depth and to what extent it effects barrel wall thickness which is the first thing you should find out. BWT is covered in many threads by very knowledgeable people on this forum. Dr. Drew is a wealth of knowledge on Damascus barrels and i suggest you read his web site and familiarize yourself with the current thinking.

You state that the barrels have not been honed but the only way to tell if you have enough wall thickness is to measure them and then proceed with period appropriate shells.

It is in your hands to assure the safety of your gun and no one will take on that responsibility for you.

Measuring barrel wall is also covered in many threads available using the search function. There is a long learning curve before you can arrive at a conclusion.

When I first bought this 1873 Charles Daly from a garage sale back in the 90’s for $45. I took it to a gunsmith who measured the chambers at 2 7/8” and was told it was a 10 gauge. I was pretty excited since I currently owned 3 browning gold 10 gauges at the time. Through the years one of my best friends went to a Colorado gunsmith school after working for an old school smith during his high school years. He ended up opening his own shop 15 years ago. I had him install hammers from Dixie gun works and inspect the gun over and deemed it safe to shoot. I searched for the original hammers for a good 20 plus years with zero luck. I sent a tracing of the existing hammer with measurements to one the Dixie gun works gunsmiths who matched it up with the closet ones they had. After the hammers were installed my gunsmith buddy and I test fired it with #5, 2 7/8” RST shells. It’s shoots beautiful. I put 17 pellets in a turkey head and neck target at 20 yards. I was just hoping for a tighter group. I did buy some #6, 1 1/4oz RST ammo to try but haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet. I figured it would be more economical to reload since I have a good 5 pounds of black powder and and 8 pounds each of 700x, green dot, and red dot. Imo it’s more rewarding to harvest game with ammo I loaded. I appreciate the helpful info. If 1/1/4 oz loads at 1150 FPS is what factory loads were a 150 years ago then imo is what the gun should be firing. That was the reason in my original question I asked for the heaviest safe load as I do not want to damage my gun. It’s been a long journey to get it up and running. I just removed the century and a half of barrel surface rust a few weeks ago and refinished the barrels with a coat of Oxpho bluing. I then removed the bluing accept for where it highlights the Damascus pattering. I also refinished the wood furniture in the last week refinishing it with boiled Lind seed oil. When I bought it the action was rusted shut. It’s come along ways. My goal was always to restore the rusty gun with one one missing hammer into a shooter and harvest a turkey with it which I will be trying to do here in a month and a half. I figured I’d try to load up some tighter grouping ammo vs the RST’s I tried in it. If not I’m sure the #6’s RST’s will probably group tighter than the RST #5’s.

https://i.imgur.com/YPeKnt6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iwwPRXZ.jpg

It’s still far from perfect but looks a million times better then when I first bought it IMO.

I have been looking for more load data. I have a 2 7/8” lee loader coming. The load card has a few loads on all the data posted here...or I didn’t see listed with a federal case. The loads are 1 5/8oz lead with 30 grains of red dot and a few other powders. No pressures listed with the loads. Anyone have a pressure listing with the red dot load? The reason I ask is I have red dot powder. The lee load table card shows both plastic and paper over shot wads listed with seating pressures. I thought these loaders were made before plastic wads were around? Guess not.

https://i.imgur.com/eli9mGI.jpg


I also found a guy on YouTube with a track of the wolf load consisting of 116 grains of FG and 1 5/8oz of lead. I will have to order the track of the wolf load data book and a few brass 2 7/8” 10 gauge shells. I would assume the 116 grain Slower burning FG will be less pressure than the 130 grains of fffg both with 1 5/8oz of lead? Should make a great turkey load I would think. It will be fun to see some smoke roll out of barrels.

Here is the video of the guy shooting the 116 grain track of the wolf load.

https://youtu.be/UhgZXoGdzHQ

I would consider thirty grains of Red Dot with any lead load including 1 1/8 ounce to be dangerous. I would never shoot that much Red Dot in any short ten loading. Those loadings would likely hurt your gun and potentially cause you physical harm. I believe that Red Dot was reformulated since those loadings were published. You would be better off to start with light loadings like 19 gr. of Red Dot with 1 1/8 ounce of lead shot and enjoy your gun. Please stop trying to make a 150 year old hammer gun something it is not and was never meant to be with your ideas of heavy loads. I am concerned it won't end well for you.

Thanks for the heads up. Thirty grains of red dot didn’t make sense to me as the few red dot loads I see listed are 17 to 19 grains. I Messaged you instead of asking questions so I don’t end up derailing this post.

Cory

those of us that have worked up or modified loads (and added to the list) have them tested by Tom Armbrust (as was that 19gr red dot load)

the cost is reasonable and the knowledge is priceless

Thanks for the help.

Is the pdf still around?

Page 6 of this thread

that 19 grains of reddot will go down in history for the ten gauge...charlie

I have been a big fan of 700-x good in 20 ,12 ,and 10 ga. In the 10 you can load 1 oz to 1 1/4 oz Lead loads.
Scott

Guys, I must be BLIND. I looked at the pdf from page 6 and could not find the 19 grain red dot load. Was looking for all of the specifics (hulls, primer, wad...) and pressures generated.

Jack Kuzepski

Nineteen is okay I’m sure , but the bushing I use throws 18.6 and I see no reason to change it . But I can tell you if they hadn’t stopped making SR7625 so I needed to conserve what I have I’d never have tried the Red Dot load .

here is the 19g red dot data I had tested.

Pete and Craig,
Thank you both for posting those results. I'm almost out of SR 7625 but still
have a good supply of red dot.

Jack Kuzepski

I ended up with 8 pounds of 700x and couldn’t find any 10 gauge load data for it. Sold it off last year for $400. Basically got the jug for free. I have 8 pounds of unopened green dot yet and some red dot to try that came with the 700x.

I haven’t ran into a lot of BP load data anywhere. I think track of the wolf and Ballistic products were the only places I’ve had luck for 10 gauge loads. The data I found works up to a square load of 4.5 drams of FG and 1 5/8oz of shot. I tried it with #6 BPI nickel plated shot and in my gun I had a better pattern dropping down from 4.5 drams of FG, 116 grains of FG powder to 100 grains. I can tell you there was also noticeable less recoil with the 16 grain drop as well. Shot a turkey with the load last year at 25 yards with the 100 grain FG load and 1 5/8oz #6’s. It dropped the bird in its tracks.

that sounds like a great load I will try it before long....charlie

A few of test targets with the 1 5/8oz #6 load. My barrels must not have tight chokes. The left barrel is the clear winner for longer range shooting.

https://i.imgur.com/MVbsDSf.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/sinKbvD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OPTUV2n.jpg

Left and right barrels with the same load at 25 yards.

https://i.imgur.com/SS2W4ky.jpg

The right barrel is definitely a close range spreader.

I also tried factory loaded 1 1/4oz RST #5 and #6. The best group I had was with number 6’s at 25 yards. I had half the number count of hits VS the above load and 40 yards was not obtainable for shooting a turkey needless to say with the RST factory loads in my gun.

And the outcome of the first time out in the woods with the gun and load…

https://i.imgur.com/3qLmo1K.jpg

great that's a nice turkey....charlie

Here are my targets from a few days ago. I tested 100 grains of FG in a Winchester hull. I loaded with a 1/4” nitro wad and 1 5/8oz of #5’s. It didn’t group as tight at 25 yards than my #6 load but IT DID have more hits at 40 yards than my test with #6 nickel plated shot. That was kind of confusing to me. At fifty yards I only had 3 hits VS with the #6’s.

I then tested all brass hulls with the same exact load but added a 3/4” fiber cushion was over the 1/4” nitro wad. The groups were poor compared to the plastic hull loads.


Plastic hulls…


25 yards…

https://i.imgur.com/1itc69r.jpg


40 yards….

https://i.imgur.com/n5Z8wyk.jpg


50 yards…

https://i.imgur.com/wPDPsA6.jpg



All brass…


25 yards…

https://i.imgur.com/EYoaIWX.jpg


40 yards…

https://i.imgur.com/ZBqjhsu.jpg

Hi, how do you finish closing the top of your load over the shot ?
Scott

I use a 4 pin roller for the plastic hulls. The all brass I just glue in an OS card.

https://i.imgur.com/9mF5RiR.jpg

The #6’s I cut my hull shorter before I crimped…

https://i.imgur.com/61DBxvj.jpg

The #6 load is probably 2.5” overall length. I cut the #5 shot loaded hulls around 2 3/4” before I crimped. The brass hulls I cut down to approx 2 3/4”.

I am new here, and a side by side fan. Looking for 2 7/8" 10ga data. I can not find the attachments. What am I missing?

It’s disappeared and re posted a few pages in. Don’t know if it’s still there. I save it and have more data sent to me by other posters on here an other forums along with data I’ve found myself…


https://i.imgur.com/CZxOFXo.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/w9nd8NC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Lx1EOeS.jpg

And here is some other data I’ve been forwarded and found myself…

https://i.imgur.com/qsfaOfe.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N6LzwTT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/68PfLpQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/e2t9i4A.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/f9FxDbi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fRTV3SW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wDrma87.png

https://i.imgur.com/kJ8CLUx.png

https://i.imgur.com/wenfQcH.png


This my turkey load I found on track of the wolf. I use a 100 grains of DuPont FG instead of a 116 grains which is 4.5 drams. The 16 less charge tightens up my pattern. It recoils like a light 10 gauge or 12 gauge trap loads with the 100 grains of FG and 1 5/8oz load.

https://i.imgur.com/J42opBv.jpg

I just might try the 30 grains of 800x next week but with my usual SP-10 , ounce and a quarter instead of three eights and red beans in place of spacer wads .

Hull Question
 

I really like the load with the red rectangle around it which calls for 31 grains of Longshot in a Fed hull. Very low pressure load IMO. I have all the requirements of this recipe except the Fed hull. I have read on the forum where other members have stated that 10 gauge hulls (Rem, Fed, Ched) are all straight wall hulls and thus they will interchange recipes freely. What would the opinions be on using this recipe in a Rem or Ched 2 7/8" hull ?

I’ve not got any Longshot at the moment . I do however have WIN 572 :whistle: I ‘ll try that at some point in a REM or RST/Cheddite hull .

The federal hulls will be lower in pressure because of the fiber base. Cheddite hulls have greater volume so you will need to add an additional 1/8" 16ga card wad in the base of the shot cup. I have RST/Cheddite hulls if you need some.

New to the group!
 

Hello all! I am new to the forum and looking to gain some knowledge in regard to loading some 2 7/8 in loads for my grandfather's V-C 10 gauge that my father just gifted me. The gun means more to me and my father than any other gun, or item for that matter, in my possession. I have loaded TSS for my 12s but never tried loading 10 gauge bismuth in the 2 7/8in shell length. I have been reading through Mr. Lester's posts but have been unable to download his spreadsheet data for his 10 loads. Any help would be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Matt Hogue

Try this.

Thank you, Mr. Lester for your quick response. I was able to print out your load data. This will give me a great place to start. Thanks again!
Matt

I was wondering about this recently I was comparing loads of the Cheddite Federal and Remington hulls the Cheddite required a bit more powder and still generated less pressures. These were steel loads however but from the looks of it the Cheddite hull is the roomiest of the bunch.