found a lifter
 

MR Hoover,
i am occasionally asked to view inherited gun "collections" and very recently found myself holding an 1870 era lifter.
The family had no idea whatsoever what they had, but we know its been in this family for several generations.
I went back into my collection of DOUBLE GUN JOURNALS and found your superb article on "The Poker Parker No 3561" from volume twenty, 2009.
I have arranged a follow-up visit to more thoroughly examine and record the markings, mic the bores, and get better photos etc., than the first, rather rushed meeting allowed.
I intend to follow the steps suggested from the PGCA and request a factory letter. Since this gun is in Louisiana, I am all the more fascinated by the Louisiana connection of the Poker Parker.
This new find is a lower dollar grade gun bearing more similarity to serial 24590 as shown in volume seventeen, Autumn 2006 (issue 3) of DGJ, (pg 121)... but does bear the gold shield on wrist.
Any specific suggestions you could offer as to what markings to look for other than those listed for more modern guns would be sincerely appreciated. I am aware that this may possibly be an 11 ga. I have noted the bore measurements of >740"-.763" from your article to further investigate this possibility.
Thanks,
JSM

I would suggest you go to the "Parker Grades" web page and look at the lifter information & pictures there to get familiar with lifters.

If the shield "is" gold the gun will be a high grade gun but more probable it is a silver shield used on lower grade Parker's that looks gold simply because the stock finish has aged to make it appear gold.

Look over the Parker Identification web page too. The markings on the water table and barrels will tell you what you are looking at even on lifters.

If you are new to Parker shotguns, the links off the main page have a lot of material that will help you learn about them.

if you post the serial number there is some chance the gun is in the serialization book, and basic stats such as grade, gauge, barrel length, and stock configuration can be confirmed

the markings on the top barrel rib are helpful, as are any marking on the barrel flats, the watertable (flats on the action) and the sides of the lock's engraving if any.

if the number is not in the book - a good close up of the muzzle and the muzzle end of the top rib may help determine if the barrels are original length.

clear pictures of the whole gun and the wood help to determine condition

Richard, what happened to you? I thought you were going to come see me about that LOOOOG trunk case I brought to the Southern to sell. Too late now; some old guy bought it, grumbling about the fact that the new handle I put on it wasn't "original" and that he was skeptical about it being able to fit and handle his 8 ga. underlifter hammer Grade 5 with 40 inch barrels...........

11 Gage Chambers
 

Mr. Hoover, Could you please post the numbers for an 11 gauge chamber or possibly a reference where they can be found? Thank you, Tom

I have been traveling home from the SXS and just now reading me messages. If the gun has a gold shield on the wrist it is one of the top two grades. This is most easily determined by examining the sculpting of the bolsters. If it contains a full teardrop (like 3561) it is the highest grade ($250 or Grade 6 equivalent) If the teardrop goes only 3/4 way to the standing breech it is the $200 (grade 5equivalent). Both are quite rare and very highly prized. If you can send the serial number and photos it will be possible to give more precise information.

Richard

Sorry I missed out on the case. I spent most of my time in the Parker tent measuring gun barrels.

By the way, Why didn't you put an original handle on it for the nice gentleman? :crying: :o:knowbetter:He may also be unhappy if your non-original handle foes not hold up under the weight of those big barrels. When he brings it back, give me a call. I have nice light weight 11-bores.:bowdown:

Tom,

From looking at the 1873 and 1874 order books it seems that by that late period the majority of the 11-ga Parkers were chambered for 12-A brass shotshells. these have essentially identical diameters to a modern 12-ga shell (0.810" head to 0.800" mouth). A modern 12-ga shell fits perfectly in these chambers. These chambers are in the Parker 11-ga #4005 that I shot in the hammer-gun event on Sunday morning.

Some 11-ga Parkers were chambered for the brass 10A shells--a modern 10-ga shell fits these chambers perfectly.

Several of the very early 11-bore Parkers (1866-1874) were chambered for the 11 paper or 11A brass shells (0.825" head to 0,810" mouth). My poker Parker has these chambers. If a 12-ga shell is loose and a 10-ga shell will not go in the chambers, the gun is chambered for the extremely rare (almost non-existent) 11-ga shells. In this case the chambers provide a solid test.

As a result of this fact, several of the early Parker 11-ga guns were chambered for 12A or 10 A shells based on what we have discovered by bore measurements, even though they are listed as 12-ga or 10-ga in the Parker Serialization due to the chambers and the way they were annotated in the stock and order books. These guns can only be recognized by careful study of the bores. Since most of the 11-ga guns pre-date the stock hooks and since many were erroneously entered as 10-ga or 12-ga, I think the number of 11-ga Parkers that were made could possibly be twice as many as are shown in the Serialization or as appear in the listing in the Parker Story.

Very interesting. I sure wish my supposed 11 gauge were not in the shop so you could check it out.

Mr. McCrocklin, also see Double Gun Journal Volume 13, Issue 2 (Summer 2002), p. 43 for my article on a unique 10 ga. Grade 5 underlifter hammer gun, specifically the discussion on the vagaries of establishing grades before the numerical grading sequence was begun by Parker Bros., and some of the intracacies of determining grades after that, as in the case of extra embellishments, etc. The early ones will often surprise you!