1917 Parker Single Barrel Trap

[Casey Clark]

I have a Parker single barrel trap gun that I was looking to get some info on. The gun has a 32" barrel, the choke is a modified choke. SN# is 1774XX. Here are some pictures of the gun. Any information on this gun will be appreciated! Thanks

[charlie cleveland]

very nice gun...charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Looks in such high condition that it may be refinished. It probably is, because the wide screw slots and misaligned screws kind of give it away. It is one nice single barrel. A PGCA letter may link the gun to a known competition shooter. $40.00 is not much to get that information. There are more than a few single barrel collectors reading this forum.

[George M. Purtill]

what grade is that gun?
where is the grade marked?

[edgarspencer]

It looks to be a higher grade. The case colors look too new for the wear on the checkering.

[Chuck Bishop]

It's an early SC trap gun. The early SC's had floral engraving instead of the pigeon on the floor plate. Receiver has cyanide case colors.

[George M. Purtill]

Where is the grade marked?
I dont see a number on the watertable?

[Chuck Bishop]

I think Parker introduced the SBT in 1917 and this is a 1917 gun. Thanks for noting the lack of grade on the water table George. I didn't see that. I can only guess that Parker hadn't established a standard marking for these early SBT's. I know (without looking) that my 1928 SC has at least a 4 on the water table. Also note from the picture the rib inscription on the vent rib. Later SBT's had the barrel steel and Parker name on the side of the barrel, not on the rib. Someone said it was because the vent rib could buckle when inscribed. Also seen on these early SBT's was a screw at the top of one side of the receiver. Evidentially Parker used a separate firing pin instead of the firing pin as part of the hammer assembly like they usually did. The screw provided access to the pin. I'm not sure when they changed to the one piece hammer/firing pin on the SBT's. Maybe others know.

[Dean Romig]

I have never seen a rib inscription like that one.

[Casey Clark]

Thanks for the response everyone, another thing that I have found that may be different is that this is a modified choke instead of a full choke.

[Mike Franzen]

Does that say MADE IN USA on the rib? The book lists it as 32'' bbl and straight stock so that hasn't been messed with.

[George M. Purtill]

what is the usual butt configuration on a SBT?

[Bill Murphy]

Recoil pad.

[Don Reed]

Question: Were there ever any SBT's made with the typical shotgun or pistol-grip stocks? I remember shooting trap with a fellow YEARS ago who shot a Parker single barrel, and I'll be darned if I can remember the stock configuration. I'm pretty sure the gentleman has passed on, and I'd like to know whatever became of that gun. He shot it well...

[Bill Murphy]

Yes, they were made with straight grips, pistol grips with caps, and pistol grips with round knobs instead of caps. This gun should have a "T" on the barrel flat indicating Titanic Steel for the barrel, as well as a weight stamp with a number for pounds and ounces. Nice gun.

[Jeff Christie]

I thought the lowest grade SBTs were made in was SC (I have one and really enjoy it) with an Acme steel barrel. I have never heard of a Titanic barrel on an SBT but I may well be wrong. If so, I'd like to see a picture.

[Bill Murphy]

Yes, the gun is an SC Grade. In his serial number range, it should be Titanic Steel. I'm sure he will tell us what the mark is on the barrel flat.

[Dean Romig]

I thought the C grade had Acme Steel barrels, even the SC

[Dean Romig]

Does the forend have the reinforcing rod or bolt (the head of which can be seen at the nose of the forend)?

[Bill Murphy]

We are waiting to hear from the owner to tell us what mark is on the barrel flat.

[Bill Murphy]

I guess Casey is not going to tell us how his barrel flat is marked. However, early SC guns were equipped with Titanic Steel barrels. My 177,741 is a Titanic gun. Early SB guns were probably Titanic steel also, but I have not seen one.

[Jeff Christie]

I guess Casey is not going to tell us how his barrel flat is marked. However, early SC guns were equipped with Titanic Steel barrels. My 177,741 is a Titanic gun. Early SB guns were probably Titanic steel also, but I have not seen one.

There is rarely a time when I fail to learn something from a visit to our website.

[Bill Murphy]

I could have made myself clearer. "I have not seen an early SB" is what I meant to say. I assume early SBs are Titanic Steel, like another poster suggested.

[Mike Franzen]

Bill I looked at my SBT 178956, made in 1917. There is no steel reference on the rib or in the Parker records. How do you determine the type steel?

[Randy Davis]

Bill, I have a SB made in 1920. Would that be considered early?

Regards,
RD

[Bill Murphy]

The steel type is stamped on the barrel flat. Titanic is "T", Acme is "A". Randy, only you can tell us what the marking is on your B Grade. Does anyone have an early SA that they can check.

[Chuck Bishop]

Mike, check the barrel flats for a symbol of steel type. Probably a T for Titanic.

Randy, Parker started SBT's in 1917 and they had floral engraving on the trigger floor plate. These are the guns I would consider "early SBT
s"

[Randy Davis]

Good Morning Gentlemen, I checked my SB grade made in 1920. Marked Acme Steel on barrel and "A stamped on barrel flat. Also had three patent dates stamped on barrel flat. I guess now I need to send for a letter to learn more...

RD

[Mike Franzen]

I checked and there is a T and also an A. The T is larger so I assume its titanic. There is an unusual looking starburst engraved on the lug. Any idea what that could be?

[Bill Murphy]

Randy, when the steel type is marked on the outside of the barrel, it is no longer the "earliest" generation which had no visible steel type stamped or engraved, on the barrel or on the rib. My B is serial number 226,648. What is your number? The Bs are nice guns. I'm looking at an overpriced A, but probably won't be able to get the price where it belongs.

[Jeff Christie]

What is the price range for a good B and A? I do not recall every seeing one for sale anywhere. I have never seen one other than in pictures. I have only seen 2 C's, mine and another around here although I have seen several for sale. In fact I just missed one I was interested in.

[Randy Davis]

Yes, the SC`s are the ones usually found for sale. You are right about not finding SB and SA guns up for sale. There were not very many produced so pricing could be anywhere from $7000 to $10000 ? for a `B grade and $10000 to $15000 for an `A grade. I guess it depends on your passion of Parker Single Barrel Trap guns.

Regards,
RD

[Bill Murphy]

Randy, thanks for the price estimates on higher grade Parker singles. However, most single traps are a bit grey and often don't have all their wood and are at least partially refinished. When I add an A to my collection, I hope it is in a price range a bit lower than you have mentioned.

[Craig Parker]

Bill,
I have pic's of this gun, it's marks are T and 3/6

Craig

[Bill Murphy]

Titanic Steel. I don't know exactly when the Acme Steel started. Our Research Committee would know from entries in the 1917 and 1918 stock books. The order books will not give up that information.

[Randy Davis]

Bill, yes I would also hope to find an A grade for less than my estimate. It is on the high side. But due to their rarity a nice one may bring that price range. Sure I would like to add one in the $9K to 10 range. Did you see the one where they were asking $16000

Best Regards,
RD

[Bill Murphy]

$16,000 is a bit of a stretch.

[Bill Murphy]

Randy, I'm not sure I am familiar with that one.

[Randy Davis]

Bill, I sent you a link

[Steve Cambria]

Chuck/Bill et al. ,

I always thought it was the early (1917) guns that had the access screw on top of the frame? Would be interesting to pin down the ser.# range when that feature was introduced/curtailed.

Regards,

Will Letterman

[Bill Murphy]

OK, 177,741 has the screw.

[Chuck Bishop]

Steve,

The records don't show when Parker changed the design of the firing pin on the SBT. The Parker Story shows 185608 with the screw on the right side of the frame to access the pin and that was 1919.

It would be good for the Parker Pages First & Last Found section. Latest S/N found for a SBT with screw access to firing pin.

[Dave Suponski]

I used to own 180115 SC SBT. A 32" straight grip gun and it had the screw.

[Steve Cambria]

Thanks, Chuck. Just what I was thinking. Further testament that great minds do occasionally think alike...LOL. I had always believed that access screw was there when production started in 1917. So much to learn and hopefully, lots more time
to do so. Thanks-----S

[Steve McCarty]

Your gun is an SC and as someone has posted it is an early one. I have a similar gun that is also a 177 number, so mine is your gun's sister. (Aren't guns female?) Mine is set up just like yours, but had a silvers pad which I replaced with a new one. I've posted pics of mine here before. I'll try again. http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Parker%20Shotguns/Parkershotguns139.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/GermVMA211/media/Parker%20Shotguns/Parkershotguns139.jpg.html)http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Parker%20Shotguns/ParkerShotguns001.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/GermVMA211/media/Parker%20Shotguns/ParkerShotguns001.jpg.html)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Parker%20Shotguns/Parkershotguns152.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/GermVMA211/media/Parker%20Shotguns/Parkershotguns152.jpg.html)

[Steve McCarty]

My SC has the firing pin access screw on the upper right side of the receiver when you are looking down the barrel. I'm not looking at the gun, but I think the S# is 177128. I'll have to check. No pistol grip and a very nice piece of wood. I shoot it all of the time. It is about a 70/30 gun. The original owner was a famous businessman of the era and lived in San Fransisco. He probably shot at the Bohemian Club.http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Parker%20Shotguns/Parkershotguns149.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/GermVMA211/media/Parker%20Shotguns/Parkershotguns149.jpg.html)

Its got a pretty serious chip missing at the wrist along the lower tang.

[Steve McCarty]

Steve: I took the pictures of my gun about five years ago, and they aren't very good. I'll take some more so that you can match my gun with yours. I suspect that they were made by the same smith, and the two guns are closely related.

Have you shot your gun? I've shot thousands of rounds thu mine, and she is no worse for wear. When I bought the gun it had a worn spring in the opening lever and a very badly worn butt pad. All fixed now. It is great to have such and wonderful old Parker to shoot.

[Steve McCarty]

Steve: I took the pictures of my gun about five years ago, and they aren't very good. I'll take some more so that you can match my gun with yours. I suspect that they were made by the same smith, and the two guns are closely related.

Have you shot your gun? I've shot thousands of rounds thu mine, and she is no worse for wear. When I bought the gun it had a worn spring in the opening lever and a very badly worn butt pad. All fixed now. It is great to have such and wonderful old Parker to shoot.

I just checked the S# on my SC. It is 177853.

[John Thomson]

I know this is an old thread but I just read it. It is my understanding that most of these guns were CH grade. Mine is a CH and the barrel length is 34". Mine was produced in 1918 from the serial number and has been restored.

[Chuck Bishop]

John, just to be technically correct, you have an SC grade (grade 4) single barrel trap gun. The CH grade (grade 4) is the terminology for a grade C hammerless gun without ejectors. With ejectors it would be a CHE hammerless gun. The SC grade with a 32" barrel was the most common configuration.

[John Thomson]

Thanks for the information. My other two Parkers are side by sides and I only understood that the single was a C grade where the two other guns are stamped DH and VH. Neither of those guns have ejectors as one is from 1907 and one from 1918 per your website serial number list.

[Tom Wyraz]

178,364 does not have the screw

tjw

[Chuck Bishop]

Tom, does your floor plate have the pigeon?

[Randy Davis]

Two Parkers from my single barrel trap collection. SC serial # 217551 lettered 1926 and SB serial # 190084 lettered 1924...

[Tom Wyraz]

No, that gun does not have the pigeon.

tjw

[John Gardner]

An SBT is on my wish list and almost picked up one at the Vegas Show but a Lifter caught my eye, and wallet, instead as hammers are my first passion. Another is old magazines. Here is an ad for the SBT from 1917. Cheers JG

[charlie cleveland]

that sure is a neat magazine cover.. charlie

[bob risser]

178,364 does not have the screw

tjw

#178667 has the screw,no pigon and T on barrel flat.

[Bill Murphy]

The screw apparently was discontinued at 179,000 or before. We don't know when the scroll stopped and the pigeon appeared. The pigeon is a nice addition, but the scroll guns are more interesting. Has anyone seen a Parker single with the finger grooves like in the ad? I have not seen a gun with that feature in 55 years of fooling with Parkers.

[Dean Romig]

The pigeons I have seen on the SBT's appear to be characteristic of much of Frederick Anschutz's work. There is a possibility that he may have been instrumental in the change to the pigeon as he was chief engraver at the time of the change.

[Steve McCarty]

The screw apparently was discontinued at 179,000 or before. We don't know when the scroll stopped and the pigeon appeared. The pigeon is a nice addition, but the scroll guns are more interesting. Has anyone seen a Parker single with the finger grooves like in the ad? I have not seen a gun with that feature in 55 years of fooling with Parkers.

The birds engraved on my SC SBT appear to be "schmoes" to me. Remember schmoes? Al Cap. What do the pigeons look like?

[Steve McCarty]

Thanks for the response everyone, another thing that I have found that may be different is that this is a modified choke instead of a full choke.

My SBT SC ss# 177853 looks similar to the one in question. Same style engraving. My gun has very little case color though.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Parker%20Shotguns/Parkershotguns139.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/GermVMA211/media/Parker%20Shotguns/Parkershotguns139.jpg.html)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Parker%20Shotguns/Parkershotguns147.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/GermVMA211/media/Parker%20Shotguns/Parkershotguns147.jpg.html)

[Steve McCarty]

Barrel flats on my gun. I have no idea what any of them mean.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Parker%20Shotguns/ParkerShotguns001.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/GermVMA211/media/Parker%20Shotguns/ParkerShotguns001.jpg.html)

[Steve McCarty]

The birds engraved on my SC SBT appear to be "schmoes" to me. Remember schmoes? Al Cap. What do the pigeons look like?

"later entry" No SBT has no birds engraved anywhere. I was thinking of my GH.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, Steve's SC has no birds to critique. The "T" on the barrel flats indicate the the barrel is Titanic Steel. The "JG" is the barrel maker, Jim Geary. The "3 6" is the barrel weight. The "12" is the gauge. The "A" and the "S" I don't know.

[Steve McCarty]

Yup, Steve's SC has no birds to critique. The "T" on the barrel flats indicate the the barrel is Titanic Steel. The "JG" is the barrel maker, Jim Geary. The "3 6" is the barrel weight. The "12" is the gauge. The "A" and the "S" I don't know.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to see if I can get a letter. If so, I'll frame it. I shoot my SBT often. It is my go to trap gun. It shoots high as a cat's back. I let the bird "float".

[Steve McCarty]

Am shooting my SC weekly now. It must have a pretty tight choke, because when I hit one solidly it just disappears. No pieces anywhere. The gun mounts perfectly into the hollow of my shoulder and not on my upper arm. I have pretty short arms and some shotguns do that. I am training myself to shoot as quickly as I can...it pays off in handicaps.

Question for you trap experts out there: How high above the "house" do you point your gun when you call for the bird? On station 5 I point my gun about a foot above the right hand corner of the house. The bird I miss most often is what should be the easiest shot. The one going straight away. Everything looks perfect, I shoot and miss! When that happens I cannot believe it! It is maddening.

[Bill Murphy]

The "one foot above the house" hold point causes a faster than neccesary gun movement to the target. The "high and outside" hold point at stations one and five allows you to address the target with a slower gun. If you are a two eyed shooter, hold high and see the bird coming.