Serial Number Question

[Frank Formeister]

Dear fellow enthusiasts - I'm a new member who has owned a Parker, that my father gave me, for many years.

Recently, I became interested in finding out more about this gun, S/N 3061. I find this same number many times on various areas of the gun but on the watertable there's a "B" in front of the 3.

Does anyone know what this means and the "F.9R. above it?

Any help or more info on this gun would be appreciated.

[Chuck Bishop]

Welcome Frank!

What a great old Parker you have! Your gun was made in 1874 and unfortunately we don't really know too much about these Dollar Grade guns because the records don't really tell us much in trying to grade them. The guns were constantly changing in engraving style.

As to the "B" prefix and the F.9.R, we believe they were inspectors marks but again, it's just speculation.

If I had to guess as to the Dollar Grade of your gun based on the barrel steel which is Damascus and the amount of limited but tasteful engraving, it could either be a $100 or $150 Dollar Grade gun. With the presence of the sunburst engraving on top of the bolsters, I'd say it's a $150 Dollar grade gun but it's just a guess.

[Frank Formeister]

Thank you Mr. Bishop for your prompt and experienced reply. Due to the age of this gun would you agree that a research letter might not be helpful in determining any additional information?

[Dean Romig]

Frank, may we see a picture of the checkering style of the forend please? That would help greatly in determining the dollar grade.

It obviously has non-rebounding hammers as depicted by the hammers being in the "half-cock" position away from the strikers. Is the lifter pin at the top of the frame still operational? Some were non-operational just prior to their being discontinued.

Dean

[Frank Formeister]

Dean, hear are some pics you requested, plus a few more. I'm not familiar with the "lifter pin" you asked about, but I don't think I have it.

Thanks

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Frank. The three-point checkering pattern on the forend is believed to be an indication that it is the pre-courser to the Grade 2 and yours has that pattern.

[Dean Romig]

When the lifter is fully depressed does the round pin in the top of the frame protrude?

[Chuck Bishop]

Frank,

It's always nice to have an official PGCA letter for a gun. In your case, what you would be getting is basic build information plus patterning data.

[Frank Formeister]

There appears to be a round pin between the firing pin breeches but no, it does not lift.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Larry, yours is one of those that were made non-functional. Later frames didn't have that feature at all due to a design change.

[Frank Formeister]

Just some more info on this gun - it has 28" barrels, marked C12, J.L., & what I think looks like 48 stamped on them.

Barrels look pristine but would anyone know the wall thickness of the barrels at the muzzle?

Thanks

[Larry Frey]

Frank,

It's always nice to have an official PGCA letter for a gun. In your case, what you would be getting is basic build information plus patterning data.

Chuck,
I was under the impression that the PGCA had little or no information on the early Dollar Grades. At what serial number do we start having enough info to create a letter?

[Larry Frey]

Thanks Larry, yours is one of those that were made non-functional. Later frames didn't have that feature at all due to a design change.

Dean,
I believe you were refering to Frank but in any case the pin on my old lifter 3251 is also non-functional.

[Chuck Bishop]

Larry,

The earliest factory records we have are contained in the stock books and start at S/N 1501 made in 1874. The earliest stock books in this range only contain basic info such as S/N, maybe barrel steel, and stock dimensions. Many S/N's have no information at all that can be read 140 years later. Order Books start in 1877 at around S/N 8,000 and this is where you find out who the gun was sold to, the price paid, and any other special instructions that the person who placed the order specified.

At about S/N 1780, the format of the stock book changed to a horizontal format. Now you start to see additional information such as stock dimensions, weight, and patterning information. Remember, at this time, you have nothing to base the grade of gun on because there is no price and if your lucky, it may say "Dam" so you know it's a higher grade but what what grade exactly we don't know. At around S/N 1850, the records are more complete with barrel length, stock dimensions and weight but still the grade and barrel steel is many times missing or unreadable.

Around S/N 4000 we start to see the type of steel used more consistently such as Iron, Lam, PT, T-0, T-1, T-2, and Damascus so we start to see the grade of gun being manufactured but they are still considered Dollar Grade guns at this time.

Once we get to 1877 and S/N's in the 8k range and we can view the Order Books, we are in the "Quality" grade guns and can base the Quality or Grade based on price listed.

Now you know why I cringe when someone requests info on those low S/N guns:banghead:

This subject would be a good project for a PP article but don't look at me to do it:nono:

[Dean Romig]

"I'll need to check but it may be possible that Damascus barrels on Parker guns may predate Twist barrels on the lower grades."

I find Damascus Steel barrels on all but what appear to be the lowest grade... the dollar grade equivalent of the Grade 0 (often with no engraving and no checkering) which have Plain Twist.

I do find that the dollar grade equivalent to the Grade 1 have Damascus Steel barrels. quite a lot later - when the grades were identified by a number (e.g. Grade 1, Grade 2, Grade 3, Grade 4) Damascus Steel barrels were only used on Grade 2 and higher. Then Grade 3 and Grade 4 had Fine Damascus while Grade 5, and 6 had Finest Damascus.

[calvin humburg]

What a great couple of guns. Got any more pictures Larry?

[Larry Frey]

I don't want to impose on Franks thread but here are a couple of pics just for you Calvin.

[Frank Formeister]

Wow! Now that's a Parker, what a beautiful gun.

[Frank Formeister]

Don't worry about stepping on my thread. Anyone with old Parkers can step in and show us pictures which contributed to their success and the fascination that followed for more than a hundred years.

Being a novice on this forum and I admit I haven't searched them all, would it be possible to have a thread or database where we can see, in numerical order, serial numbers of guns still in existance? At least those on this forum.

[Dean Romig]

Frank, we do not have such a compilation of known Parkers "still in existence" but from the Home page you can access many, many pictures of guns of various grades owned by PGCA Members.

[edgarspencer]

What a handsome gun, Frank. You are fortunate to be the current caretaker.