Crimping question???

[Angel Cruz]

On the final crimp adjustment on the loader, I know what crimp depth is.
What is taper? What are they refering to?

[Angel Cruz]

Okay what happen here? And what should I do??

[Chuck Bishop]

Angel, who is the manufacturer of the reloader.

First, it looks like your crimp is too shallow. Second, taper refers to the final station that rounds the mouth of the shell. It's purpose is to round the mouth of the shell primarily for smooth feeding in autoloaders. In a break open gun the taper isn't important.

[Angel Cruz]

Chuck, it's a Ponsness/Warren.

[David Holes]

Angel, all wads vary in depth according to how much shot you are going to drop in each shell. Different wads, different loads. There are many styles of wads out there. Your wad is designed for more shot then you are putting in. Fill the wad and try crimping again. Dave

[Angel Cruz]

I thought I need more shot. Maybe I did get the wrong wad. I'm using 7/8 of shot. Thanks Dave.

[David Holes]

Angel, just be patient and keep trying. You will make a lot of mistakes to begin with. In the end it is a fun rewarding job. Dave

[Angel Cruz]

Okay, 1 oz of shot. Now what. More Taper??

[Tom Carter]

Angel, Call PW and get a copy of their manual and it will tell you how to adjust the crimper to correct the problem. They may have the manual on line. Check their web site. Good luck, Tom

[Robert Rambler]

Looks like the CRIMP STARTER needs adjusted lower. See Fig 3-6 in the manuel. You need more hull folded over to close the hole. HTH

http://www.reloaders.com/owners_manuals/duo-mat_375_manual.pdf

[Angel Cruz]

Thanks guys, I have the manual. I was wondering if the crimp starter needs adjusment. Back to the manual!!

[Chuck Bishop]

It's been years since I used a PW800b but it's quite a bit different than a 375. As I recall, I didn't really need the crimp starter installed to get a decent looking shell. The crimp starter will get the folds lined up and started properly. It looks to me like the crimp die needs adjustment. Look at page 3-4 for how to adjust the crimp.

If you screw up, just eject the shell and cut the hull open and separate the components to use again. The only thing you waste is the hull.

[Angel Cruz]

Thanks Chuck!!

[David Holes]

Make sure you are loading the right length shell casing.

[John Farrell]

What hotshot said. That looks like a classic 2 5/8" hull trying to crimp like a 2 3/4" hull.
Other considerations. What wad are you using? Cut the hull open and collect the shot, remove the wad with a pair of needle nose pliers, remove and weigh the powder. Start over with the reloading process and weigh both the powder charge and the shot. If the powder charge is, say double the recommended weight, the wad will sit higher in the hull and prevent fold crimping.

It is at least one of the above. My first concern would be the powder charge raising the height of the wad in the shell.

[Angel Cruz]

They are 2-1/2 inch hulls with sporting 16 wads. I had order G16 wads, I'm gonna call BP and see if it makes a difference. The powder wt is what is called for but the shot is 1 gram short. Does it make that big of a difference? Thank!!!

[John Farrell]

That is as I suspected on first looking at the photo you included. You can probably stay with the components in the shell, except you will need some overshot cards from BPI or Precision Reloading and roll crimp the shorter shells. Roll crimping is not all that difficult.

BPI and Precision Reloading (1-800-223-0900) have roll crimping tools that are used in a hand drill or bench drill. IMHO the Precision Reloading is the better of the two roll crimpers. The BPI has one roll starter, the PR roll crimper has 4. Makes a better rc.

Attached photos of some 16 gauge roll crimped shells. It's not brain surgery. A progressive reloader where you cannot remove the shell during the reloading operation is a problem. A MEC 650 works, you just have to remove the shell after dropping the shot and inserting the overshot card with the wad ram through the wad guide. A MEC 600 jr or other single stage is the ideal. It's slow going, one at a time for the roll crimping, but, the end result is good. JF

[Angel Cruz]

Thanks John. Just got off the phone with BP and they're gonna send me some formulas to go with the sporting 16 wads. They also mentioned the filler wad.

[mike covington]

Angel, I load on MECs so I can't help you with any questions on the PW but I load a lot of of 2 1/2" 16s using the Gualandi SG-16 and the DR-16 wads.

Here's my experience. The SG-16 works best in a 2 1/2" fold crimp hull, without any filler needed. The DR-16 works better in a 2 1/2" hull for roll crimping, without any filler. The DR wad is too tall for a fold crimp load. Both of these are 7/8 oz loads, which is all I load.

If you want to roll crimp an originally fold crimped hull the Precision Reloading roll crimp tool works best. I also have roll crimp tools by Lyman & GAEP and these work better on hulls not originally fold crimped. These give a more rounded final crimp where the Precision tool give a more squared final crimp, but nothing wrong with the end result. I do all my roll crimping on a large drill press with a hull vise.

Here's another twist. I struggle with getting good looking crimps on RST hulls. Once I have them final fold crimped I run the loads thru my GAEP roll crimp tool which greatly improves the looks. Probably doesn't improve the loads but does improve the looks. Photo below shows the before roll cimp-bottom, after roll crimp-top. Mike

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/mc15426378/16loads003.jpg

[Angel Cruz]

Thanks Mike.

[Angel Cruz]

Okay, getting close. Now how do I close that small hole??

[mike covington]

Angel, on a MEC I would add a touch more pre-crimp till the hole is either closed or almost closed. Can you do this on a PW?

Also, unless the hole is large enough for shot to pass thru the hole is not a big problem.


Mike

[Angel Cruz]

Thanks Mike, I can do that.

[Angel Cruz]

Mike, it worked. The hole is smaller that a #8 shot.

[mike covington]

Good deal. BTW, the loads you posted photos of look really nice. New Cheddite
hulls?

Mike

[Angel Cruz]

I got it Mike, the hole is closed. And yes they are Cheddite hulls.

[Tom Carter]

Good job Angel. Tom

[George M. Purtill]

Nice work Angel.
You are my 16 gauge man! I wish you lived closer, after coffee we could shoot our 16s!!
Ive been saving 16 RST hulls for a year. I hope I can make crimps like yours.

[Angel Cruz]

Thanks Tom!!
George you need to retire to Florida. Man, do I need a shooting partner.

[charlie cleveland]

angel your a full fledged reloader now...nice lookin shells.. charlie

[Angel Cruz]

Thank you Charlie. But you know what they say.. the proof's in the pudding. I'll find out tomorrow at the Sporting Clays course.

[John Farrell]

Good going, Angel. Your short hull reloads are how they are supposed to look. Good shooting and happy days to you.

[Angel Cruz]

Thank you John. I went out today and shot some Sporting Clays and my 16ga lifter loves the load. The best day I ever had and with shells I made. Man that was a good feeling.
I can't wait for Oct 1st and the start of quail season.

[Paul Harm]

Angel, measure the distance from the top of the shot to the top of the shell. That's how much you need for a good crimp with the 16ga [ it will be different for different gauges ]. Now, if you change to different wads or what ever you'll still need the same distance for a good crimp. I load for 10, 12, 20, and 28ga and with all them the shell is almost touching after the starting crimp. Your last shells looked real nice. In my 12ga, I've loaded 1, 7/8, and 3/4oz loads, and all that's changed is the wad and shot charge.

[Angel Cruz]

Thanks Paul!!

[Paul Harm]

I use Claybuster wads and in 12ga for 1, 7/8, and 3/4oz loads their different wads vari in height about .060. Some wads are made for 7/8 and 1oz loads. It's a balancing act to use the right powder - some take up more room - and the right wad and shot to get the proper height for a good crimp. I never use any wad pressure - just enough to seat the wad. More than that and you're just crushing the cushion part of the wad and it may want to push back up later giving you trouble. A lot of guys have trouble in the begining because they don't leave enough of the shell sticking up above the shot for it to fold over for a good crimp. It takes more than one would think. Now for a fold crimp you need a lot less - just enough to roll over. From my old Lee handloader they recommend:
-- star crimp --- roll crimp
10ga 19/32 --- 7/16
12ga 1/2 --- 3/8
16ga 15/32 --- 11/32
20ga 7/16 --- 5/16
This is with the old fiber wads that don't have hardly any give where as the plastic does and this gives a bit more lee way. Hope this helps understand what's happening and what you have to do.