Questions about Reproductions

[Byron Brown]

I have recently developed an interest in purchasing a repro. Luckily, I came across this forum while researching the possibilities. The main reasons I'm interested in a repro, as opposed to an original, are that I want a modern gun and I don't really have the knowledge base to find a good original. Are there specific repro problems that I should be looking to avoid? For instance, I see posts on here about sticking safeties, and I've read in other places about problems with the single trigger models. Is there a range of serial numbers that is more prone to problems than others? Any guidance would be appreciated.

[Richard Flanders]

As far as I know, it's a crap shoot as to whether you have problems with a Repro. I'd guess that some of them that have been stored away since new in the 80's may be in need of a cleaning more than some that are being used or have already been cleaned internally. What gauge are you interested in? You'll find a lot of them for sale on the Internet auction websites. You can get just about anything you want right now but those with dbl triggers and straight grips are relatively rare and higher priced, especially in the smaller gauges.

[Jay Gardner]

I have a 28 ga DT gun that I have owned for the past 3-4 years and have shot several hundred rounds through it for clay games and hunting. I did have a minor problem with the safety (can't remember exactly what is was) but it was easily fixed for little money.

Two biggest complaints I have read about on the web are doubling (almost always a result of crud build up) finicky single selective triggers (again related to crud) and straight grip stocks breaking. Regarding stock breakage - some of the wood used was less than ideal for straight stocked guns because the grain was wrong for the wrist. If you are looking for a straight stocked gun just take a close look at the wrist and make sure the grain is straight there (and for possible repairs from previous owners).

Good luck

[Richard Flanders]

Jay is correct on the breaking wrists. I think the ones that tend to break have the attractive wood that does not have a straight grain. The wilder the grain through the wrist, the more likely it is to break. The grain should be straight and ideally horizontal through the wrist and follow the wrist as much as possible.

[Byron Brown]

Thanks for the input. I haven't decided on gauge or stock/trigger configuration. I suspect I'll use the gun mostly for dove and quail hunting. I may also use it on an occasional pheasant or duck hunt. However, my pheasant hunts are usually for wild birds in South Dakota during December, and I usually duck hunts out of pits in rice fields. I'm hesitant to subject a nice repro to those conditions very often. A 12 gauge may be the more versatile option. But I suppose a 20 with 3 inch chambers may be more pleasant for the light work while still being able to handle the ducks and pheasants. Were the 12 gauge repros made with 3 inch chambers?

[Dean Romig]

Yes, and the twenty gauge Repros were made with 3" chambers too. A 28" twenty gauge may be just the ticket for the all-around shooting you describe.

[Greg Baehman]

12-ga. 3" Repros were also built--I believe all the guns with 28" long barrels, the Steel Shot Special, the Sporting Clays Classic and the standard DHE, BHE and A1-Specials.

[Joe Bernfeld]

Byron, they are great guns! There are no serial numbers that are better than others, and as has already been said, single trigger (and sticky safety) problems are most likely due to the gun needing a good cleaning. I've owned 8 of them and have never had a single problem. The only thing wrong with getting a 3" chambered 20 or 12 ga gun is that nearly all will be Mod/Full choke. That's too tight for quail, and Full choke is too tight for steel. The 12 ga "Steel Shot Specials" had 28" bbls, 3" chambered, IC/Mod (few were made), and it is also possible to find non-"Steel Shot Specials" in that configuration (I know because I own one) but they are rare. Any Parker Repro with chokes more open than Full can be used with steel shot. Maybe your best bet would be a 12 ga with 26" bbls and IC/Mod chokes. They tend to be the least expensive combination, and would be good for quail and doves, plus you could still shoot 2 3/4" steel loads for ducks (plenty of shell in my opinion). Broken stocks can happen with any shotgun; I broke the wrist of my pistol grip 28 ga Repro (it's not just straight grip guns that break). However, I fell down pretty hard on the gun, and I'm not sure that any gun wouldn't have broken in 2! The figure in the wrist was fine; there is just not much wood in the wrist, especially on the 28 ga guns, and it broke behind the tangs where there is deep inletting for the tangs plus a hole from top to bottom for the rear tang screw. It was not too hard to fix though. Good luck and let us know what you buy!
Joe

[Dean Romig]

I have a 20 ga. Repro with 26" & 28" barrels both choked Q1 & Q2 and both sets have 3" chambers.

[Dave Fuller]

Not all of the 28" 12 ga guns have 3" chambers. All the Steel Shot Specials do, some of the Sporting Clays Classics do, and some of the regulars 12s do. As for 20 ga guns, some do some don't. I've had very few problems with the ones I've owned. I did have a sticky safety recently on a 20ga thats seen 19 straight years in the field and never been taken apart for cleaning. I had a 12 ga double once on the first shot after I had taken it apart, cleaned it, and put it back together Its never done that again since. All in all very few problems - great guns.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I've got a 28 ga 2 barrel set, DT, straight grip, splinter FE. Was offered the opportunity to buy it new about 3 years ago and have primarily used it for quail. As pointed out above, the 28 inch barrel set is choked M/F... too tight for my use, but they swing better than the 26 inchers. LOP was too short for me, but with a strap on leather pad and carpet padding I've added about an inch to it... made a world of difference. No problems at all, though a bit stiff when I first got it. Love the gun, hope you find a good one!

[Joe Bernfeld]

I have a 20 ga. Repro with 26" & 28" barrels both choked Q1 & Q2 and both sets have 3" chambers.

And how many of those have you seen? I bet you aren't offering to sell it to Byron :rolleyes:! The vast majority of 26" guns were 2 3/4" Q1/Q2 or IC/Mod, and nearly all 28" guns were 3" Mod/Full. There are exceptions (like my 12 ga 28", 3" IC/Mod), but they are hard to find.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And how many of those have you seen?

How true. If Galazan offered 28 ga barrels instead of the .410's I'd be sorely tempted to order 28 inchers with open chokes.

[Joe Bernfeld]

Byron, here's one that would work for quail or ducks, if you want a single trigger.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/908427484/Guns/Shotguns/Parker-Reproductions-Shotguns/PARKER_REPRODUCTION_DHE_2_BARREL_SET_12_GAUGE.htm#
This one would also work well, with just one barrel set, costs a lot less and has the correct number of triggers :).
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Parker-Reproduction-DHE-12ga---English-Stock---Great-Colors.cfm?gun_id=100103272
Joe

[Byron Brown]

Is there any reason for concern that a case descibed as the "original maker's case" may not, in fact, be the original case? In other words, has there been any known history of counterfeit reproduction cases? I have looked at a number of cased guns on the internet. Some of the cases appear to have the carry handle placed evenly between the front latches, while others appear to have the handle placed closer to the left latch (looking at it from the front). One in particular offset handle case looked to have a canvas cover made for a center handle case. I suppose it could be as simple as a mismatched original cover and original case. However, if there is such a thing as a counterfeit case, how would one know it is a fake?

[Greg Baehman]

Every original Parker Reproduction case that I've encountered has had a leather trade label glued to the inside of the case. I do not believe these leather trade labels are or have been available as an aftermarket item, so therefore; I would have to believe that if the case has an oval shaped leather trade label glued inside...is original. Incidently, there are original Parker Repro cases that accommodate 26" bbl. guns and cases 2" longer made for 28" bbl. length guns. Some 26" guns originally were equipped with cases made for 28" guns. In addition, all cases I've seen the handle is off-center to balance correctly when carrying.

Here's a link to a case for sale that I believe is an original Parker Repro case:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Parker-Reproduction-Case.cfm?gun_id=100091025

[Dean Romig]

The case for my two-barrel-set has the handle right in the middle while my two cases for Repros with only one set of barrels have their handles offset.

[Joe Bernfeld]

Byron, as far as I know, the cases were all made by Emmebi, and most came with a canvas overcover with leather corners, although there were a couple of variations of these covers. I had one that came with a thin Emmebi fabric felt-like cover, but thanks to Kenny Graft who sold me an original canvas cover, it no longer does. All had two hasps, and no leather straps. They all came with snap caps, and a square oil bottle was available for extra cost (they sometimes leaked; don't ask me how I know!). Jeff's Outfitters used to sell the snap caps with "Parker Reproductions" stamped on the base, but I don't know if he still has any. I have seen A-1 specials with more expensive oak and leather covers like Galazan sells, but I don't know if they were original or not. As Greg said, they should have an oval shaped Parker Reproduction trade label, but it was possible to buy these from Reagent Chemical, as I have a couple of extras.
Joe

[Greg Baehman]

You're right Dean, my 2-bbl. set case the handle is indeed in the middle, too. The other four single bbl. cases that I have the handles are offset.

Joe, I wasn't aware that you were able to procure the original leather oval trade labels from Reagent---good for you! Wanna sell one? I recently bought a Parker Reproduction trade label from Galazan hoping it was just like the original trade label, but unfortunately it is not, but rather it is made of heavy stock paper and is rectangular in shape.

Just like the original Parker Bros. guns...never say never.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I know for certain that my 2 barrel case is original, has the leather oval makers label, centered handle and heavy canvas case.

[Robin Lewis]

I don't remember why but it has been my assumption that all the Parker repro's were sold cased. Because of that assumption, I have also assumed that when I see one listed for sale now that it would include a case.

I know what they say about "assumptions" and what its first three letters and the person making assumptions can have in common; so I ask, was every Parker repro sold with a case?

[Joe Bernfeld]

I don't remember why but it has been my assumption that all the Parker repro's were sold cased. Because of that assumption, I have also assumed that when I see one listed for sale now that it would include a case.

I know what they say about "assumptions" and what its first three letters and the person making assumptions can have in common; so I ask, was every Parker repro sold with a case?

They were all supposed to have been sold with a case; that's how they were advertised and marketed. I'm sure there could have been exceptions. I certainly have seen used ones for sale without the case, so I'd never assume. I always wondered were the case went! Sorry Greg, I only have a couple of trade labels and I don't know if any more will ever be available so I better keep them. You might try calling Reagent Chemical and Research, you never know!
Joe

[Dean Romig]

I know some Repro's become seperated from their cases from time to time - I've purchased two used Repro cases, one of them complete with canvas cover.

[Danny McHugh]

Steve Barnett have some "homeless cases"
http://www.stevebarnettfineguns.com/

[Bill Murphy]

Many Repros were sent out without cases with the promise of a case when they were available. I believe that was the deal when I bought mine from Guns Unlimited. I believe that cases were on back order from Emmebi at the time I bought my gun. I guess some of these customers got lost in the shuffle. I got mine as promised.

[James Brown]

There are three 20 ga. repo cases (one two barrel) listed at www.bishopsfineguns.com.
Look under "Parker Shotguns".
James

[Byron Brown]

I really appreciate all of the responses. You all have been very courteous and helpful. It seems the more I look around, the more questions I have. I have seen posted on the old forum a list of all factory repro options. It appears that the 12 gauge Sporting Clays gun was the only gun to come standard with screw-in chokes. However, it also appears that there was a screw-in option for about $1,000. Was this option available on all gauge guns, or only on the 12? If it was available on all guns, is there any way to tell whether a gun with choke tubes is factory original or an after-thought (besides having the orginal sales information)?

[Greg Baehman]

I really appreciate all of the responses. You all have been very courteous and helpful. It seems the more I look around, the more questions I have. I have seen posted on the old forum a list of all factory repro options. It appears that the 12 gauge Sporting Clays gun was the only gun to come standard with screw-in chokes. However, it also appears that there was a screw-in option for about $1,000. Was this option available on all gauge guns, or only on the 12? If it was available on all guns, is there any way to tell whether a gun with choke tubes is factory original or an after-thought (besides having the orginal sales information)?

Byron,

To my knowledge only the Sporting Clays Classic Parker Repro was available with factory screw-in chokes. Where did you read that screw-in chokes were an available factory option for guns other than the Sporting Clays Classic model? Can you post the link? I believe I have all of the Repro brochures and no mention of screw-in chokes are listed as an available factory option in any of these brochures that I have. They do mention, however; that custom choke combinations were available.

The SCC's were furnished with 6 Winchester Winchoke "Invisible" choke tubes. There are two ways to identify an original SCC gun: 1. The barrel flats are stamped "ISC" (for internal screw choke),the serial number on the barrels will also match the serial number on the trigger guard. 2. The barrels are very slightly flared for about 2"-3" at the muzzles. If screw-in chokes were added to an original factory choked Repro they wouldn't be factory stamped "ISC" and the muzzles wouldn't have the flare.

Here's a pic of my SCC, can you detect the very slight flare to the muzzles?

[Byron Brown]

I got that about choke tubes from the 1989 price list I found on the archive. I've tried to attach it to this reply, but I may have failed. If you go to the archives, there is a post called repro price list (I believe that's what it is called). Under accessories, it says extra barrels with screw-in tubes. Perhaps that could have been for the sporting clays gun only. Maybe I read too much into it.

[Dave Fuller]

I believe Greg is correct on the screw-in choke issue. Brileys told me their thin wall chokes are VERY difficult to install on Repros and most times they will not even attempt it. I have the 1989 price list shown there and I just assumed that the model they were advertising there was the SSC just not specifically called that. I've never seen a gun with the Repro flared barrels that was not stamped and serial numbered for the SSC but thats not to say some don't exist.

[Byron Brown]

And my original post should have said it appears the screw-in barrels were available as an accessory, not as an option on the gun itself.

[Greg Baehman]

Yeah, Byron those barrrels listed in the 1989 price list have to be the same SCC barrels marked "ISC".

[Dean Romig]

Interesting though that the brochure Byron shows doesn't make any reference whatsoever about the "screw in choke barrels with six tubes" being for any particular gauge.

[Dave Fuller]

A 20B with flared barrels and screw-in chokes would be rare, in fact unheard of, I would say. I have an original copy of that price list shown above and always assumed they were selling extra sets of ISC barrels. Maybe Mr Skeuse could help us out again if he's still checking in here.

[Dean Romig]

I am quite certain for that price it is an extra set of barrels with ISC tubes but still, it doesn't specify a gauge. Where the page references other gauges, the omission of a specific gauge would naturally include all gauges . . . but we don't know for certain because the wording is nebulous.

[Richard Skeuse]

Hi guy's the screw in choke were only for the 12 ga ICS and sporting clays guns. They were NOT available in any other guage. We saw after market guns that were done that had problems with after market chokes. Tubes were put in after market and that voided thw warrenty,hope that helps.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks for clarifying that issue Richard. That then, 12 gauge only for ISC, is the definitive answer we were looking for. Dean

[Bill Murphy]

I'm always impressed when Mr. Skeuse posts on our forum. Thanks so much.

[Jay Gardner]

Mr. Skeuse,

Just wanted to thank you for getting behind the Reproduction. I have really enjoyed my 28 ga Repro for clay games and for grouse hunting.

Cheers,

Jay Gardner

[Dave Suponski]

Mr. Skeuse,

I would like to echo the these gentlemens sentiments also.I really enjoy my 28ga.Reproduction. Now if only my son would let me have it back sometime I would enjoy it even more...:rolleyes:

[Dave Fuller]

Yep me too... my repro.s are my go to guns. My trusty ol' 20 ga. is getting packed for a Missouri quail hunt tonight. Its been all over the country with and never had any real problems after thousands of rounds. My only regret is not buying more of them new.

[Bill Murphy]

Byron, the $1100 "accessory" was not the price for screw in chokes but for an entire extra set of 12 gauge barrels with screw in chokes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I know for certain that my 2 barrel case is original, has the leather oval makers label, centered handle and heavy canvas case.

Well,so much for certainty! I was puttering around today and noticed that my case does indeed have the offset handle. All else is accurate, and I promise not to rely on my memory anymore when I post. Sorry, folks!