Engine turning on breech end of barrels.

[hugh rather]

There is a thread by Jack Johnson in the other fine doubles discussion in this forum where an L.C.Smith double breech end is shown having engine turning on barrel breech ends.I have seen a 1907 VHE Parker with similar engine turning.This is a fine[not deep or coarse}engine turning radiating from the chambers.Is this a factory ornamentation or is this aftermarket in the Parker?

[Dean Romig]

Hugh, I believe it is the result of the final finish cut or polish of the breech end. I have a couple of Parkers displaying this "engine turning" however, I don't believe it was done intentionally such as the engine turning that was done as an embellishment to the surfaces of many internal parts of the highest few grades of Parkers.

Dean

[James Brown]

This is my first attempt to use the new forum.
Is this what you refer to. I have been curious about this myself. It looks as if it was done on purpose to me.
J. Brown
Well I will have to try photo again. Didn't do it right.

[James Brown]

Trying again.

[hugh rather]

Yes,same pattern but not as well defined.

[Dean Romig]

Unfortunately James, some folks think by faking the machining on the breech end of the barrels they can elevate the value of the gun. The example you have shown is clearly faked machining and does nothing to enhance the value of the gun.
Nice gun otherwise - is that a graded .410 ?? Sweet !!

[James Brown]

Well, Mr. Romig, I was a bit taken aback. "Fake" ..... pretty strong word but straightforward. I have a great respect for your knowledge of and experience with Parkers. More research to do. Appreciate your input. I hope the P. T. Barnum theorem has not taken effect here.

James

[Dean Romig]

Please call me Dean - may I call you James?
"Fake" is a strong word and I sincerely hope I didn't upset you in using the word, however I can think of no other word to aptly describe the affected markings applied to the breech end of your barrels. And I would hardly say that the P. T. Barnum theorum applies here - a nice .410 is a nice .410 no matter a little mischief done to it. I looks like a DHE or a CHE, which is it? It looks nice, will you share more pictures? Dean

[James Brown]

Dean:
As my Dad used to say " Call me anything as long as you call me when supper's ready". James is fine. No offense taken. The gun presents itself as a CHE and I have some question as to how it got that way. Whether Remington put it together from leftover parts or someone else did I'm not sure of yet.
Either way it's a lot of fun to shoot. My camera has gone to Africa with my daughter on a mission trip so I've just a couple of old photos.

James

[Dave Suponski]

James,That is one beautiful gun! Congratulations

[Dean Romig]

James, that's a fine looking CHE. By your statement I would guess you have been unsuccessful at getting a PGCA Research Letter on it. The gun represents itself very well and regardless of whether it was assembled by Remington or by others doesn't matter very much as it is late Remington or at least finished by Remington or ex-Remington employees. Very nice indeed. Will be looking forward to other pictures after your daughter's return from her mission.
Best, Dean

[tom leshinsky]

That is a common enhancement that english gunsmiths put on guns they work on. Jack Rowe told us about that. It dresses up a other wise plain loking breech. If it bothers you just take it off. He used 600 grit paper wraped around a small piece of wood. It is very shallow and will not affect lockup.

[Channing Will]

Tom is correct, the "striping" is done simply as eye candy and can be easily removed if so desired. Now Im not putting down that beautiful little C grade 410, but usually its done in a little neater fashion which makes me guess that it was an after thought done by a less competent gunsmith. I believe some higher grade Parkers even have some jeweled internal parts, but not english like striping.

[Austin W Hogan]

I have a few Parkers which show this pleasant pattern at the breech. I think the breeches were squared with a milling saw cut. A little difference in the way the cutter was sharpened could leave these marks.

Best, Austin

[Bruce Day]

Factory original filing/milling marks on B SN 159,799

I have seen them on all graded Parkers and they are an indicator of a little used gun. The striping wears with mere opening and closing.

I have no opinion whether the milling marks of the C 410 are original or were added. The gun looks to be in extraordinary high condition.

[Dean Romig]

Bruce, thanks for showing us an example of some original milling marking.

[hugh rather]

The marks shown are similar to the gun I mentioned;this is a very little used gun in spite of its age.Thanks for the replies and info on this subject.

[C Roger Giles]

James;

Please clue us in on where you hunt rail birds and with a beautiful Parker

Roger

I forgot to ask if you are allowed to use lead shot while hunting rail bird?

[James Brown]

From the "Bench": waiting for the District Attorney and Defense Counsel to finish negotiating.

Roger:
Costal Georgia near Blythe and Jekyll Islands. I posted photos of the hunt late November last year on the previous forum titled "The Marshes of Glynn and a .410". I don't know if it's still in the archive. If not and there is interest I can post again under Hunting with Parkers here.

Dean:
Probably no more phots of subject gun. I recieved an unsolicited offer. With a son in college and a high school senior daughter who wants to go to Vet. school, you take your opportunities when presented.

James

[Dean Romig]

James, who can blame you?? Certain nobody here can find fault with that logic.

I've been told by a family member that William Harnden Foster had a .410 in either AA or A1S grade but sold it because he "had six children, each of whom would be sent to the college of their choice and after all, a gun is only a gun." So you're in the very best of company in your decision.

My Best Regards, Dean

[Bruce Day]

Judge Brown, it appears you were able to connect with an enthusiastic buyer of your wonderful little CHE 410. They are rare and valuable.

The barrel breech end milling marks were in usually high condition, of course, the whole gun was in high condition and the careful viewer becomes even more careful under those condition. When the milling marks are reduced from a 12 bore to the 410 caliber, they appear different, and that may throw some viewers off.

Anyway, congratulations. I'm a Missouri, Kansas and Colorado atty, many federal courts and the US Supreme Court, but who knows where and what the next case will be. John Davis is a Vienna, GA atty and active in the GA bar.

[James Brown]

Bruce:
Thanks. My hat is off to you. I don't think I could keep up with that many Courts and in three states. You must have really proficient office help. I had a trial practice for 32 years until I was offered my current position in our Juvenile Court. Kinda like guns, you take your opportunities when they come along.

James