Found VH 20 ga 32" BB I need help

[Anthony Cibelli]

I recently found a VH 20 gauge with 32 inch barrels on a # 1 frame. It is a 3" magnum. The number is 131424. It has a replaced stock with a Kickeze pad, but original splinter forend. Should I restore it to a VH or upgrade it to an AH or AAH or A1 Special? 32 inch barrels! Please -- looking for suggestions and names of good restorers Thanks Tony

[Dave Suponski]

Just my opinion but I am not much for upgraded guns. If the gun is sound lightly clean it up and shoot the hell out of it. A 32" 20 gauge is a wonderful gun.

[Jim DiSpagno]

Get a letter on the gun and if all is correct other than the replaced butt stock, restore to original without making it look overdone. Have a reputable gun restorer do it. All the upgrading will not add profitable value to this gun. It is very desirable in the original form. IMHO Jim

[John Campbell]

I agree with Mr. DiSpano. But beware of the word/concept of "restore." Restore to what should be the question. Making this gun look "factory new" may not be the best course. Having it returned to a "well kept" appearance may be better. But an "upgrade" will certainly destroy any heritage the gun may have.

Thus, it will be wise to choose the "restorer" with utmost care and thought. I'd personally write off any firm whose name begins with T.

Best, Kensal

[Brian Dudley]

Do not upgrade the gun!
A 20g. with 32" barrels is a rare enough find and in a magnum too! That is a rare and valuable gun. Worth much more, proportionately speaking, than an upgrade would be after the upgrade work is done to it.
To what extent to restore it all depends on the condition. You should post some pics so we can see.
If the replacement buttstock is obviously not original in either form or quality, that should be replaced to be correct.

A replacement buttstock could be finish matched to the forend and the patina of the rest of the gun so that it does not stick out like a sore thumb on the gun. Since sometimes one nice new part of a gun can lead to feeling the need to do more work on other parts.

The extent of original finish on your metal will be your determining factor on how far you want to go with any restoration work.

I am sure that gun has seen many duck blinds over the years.

[Daryl Corona]

Anthony,
Tread lightly before you do anything to this wonderful gun. Some pictures of it would help us better judge its condition. We just love pictures here. How do you know the stock has been replaced?

[Bill Murphy]

A PGCA letter should be your first move on a gun like this.

[Anthony Cibelli]

Thanks for all the responses - I'll get some pictures up tomorrow - Tony

[Anthony Cibelli]

I took a few images for your review

[Anthony Cibelli]

Receiver

[Anthony Cibelli]

water table - barrel and lug - bottom of barrels - top of barrels

[Anthony Cibelli]

"missing" rib markings - close up of barrel - stock checkering - stock

[Anthony Cibelli]

grip cap - stock and cap - forend - bottom of gun

[tom tutwiler]

Quick two cents. Re-blacken the barrels, retime the screws, recut the checkering on the forearm. Don't believe buttstock is original and don't believe that is an original grip cap or period correct pad (or fitted that well either). What is the LOP now? I think restore it to what it should be. I don't believe I'd recase color it as it has some good color already. PS. Reserve the right come back and edit my answer as soon as I stare at your pics a pit more.

Double PS. Man, that's an awesome sporting clays gun on the vintage circuit for sure.

[Brian Dudley]

Who knows what is going on with the couple spots of rib matting that is missing. Most likely some damage to the rip that was polished out and removed the matting. Are those spots low? They would have to be to have completely remove the matting.

Looks to me like the reciever was blued. maybe it is just the lighting.

The buttstock checkering pattern is not correct and poorly done. The checkering itself is ok looking, but the pattern is very bad. And the grip cap is not correct. As for the buttstock itself... hard to say. Have you checked for a Serial number under the guard? There is not much about the form of the buttstock that screams that it is a replacement, but the overall finish of it compared to the forend points to at least a refinish if not a replacement.

As for what to do to the gun, it is compeltely up to you. It would be a very good candidate for a complete restoration since there is a lot of little issues with it. In that senario, the rib matting is the only thing that would strike me as being the difficult thing to repair correctly.

I do agree that recutting the checkering and adding some finish to the forend is a good idea. Maybe also redo the checkring on the wrist to be correct would be a good idea (if there is enough to work with there). Or maybe even a replacement of the buttstock to one that that is 100% correct.

Other than that, I think you ahve a good shooter there.

Or it could just be a shooter.

[John Campbell]

There is nothing about this gun that cannot be put right. Even with the buttstock, which may be the original (albeit bodgered). But the cost of it all done by a good 'smith might be as much as the gun's worth at the moment.

That said, the value in this gun is the barrels. They are VERY rare. In that regard, this gun is a solid candidate for the typical Parker "restoration." It is a piece of Parker history that has some real value and should be preserved.

Best, Kensal

[Anthony Cibelli]

A quick summary - The rib "missing matting" 3 areas are not lower than the remainder of the barrel. The entire rib at that point is lower than the barrel, so it is probably not rubbed of. Maybe it was missed originally. The barrels do ring like church bells. The inside bores are fine. IM and M chokes. The grip cap is not original. I'll remove the stock to check for matching numbers. Now, I'm not sure if it is a replacement or a bad "refinish" job. And, of course the screws all need to be timed.

Any thoughts - who to send the barrels to for rust blue?

It would be a great clays gun! It just needs some TLC.
More opinions welcomed

[Anthony Cibelli]

Two additions:
1 - I removed the butt stock and it is not the original
2 - the mystery of the missing wavy lines - according to "The Parker Story" volume II
It seems this was hand rolled on to the rib. There were a few 'mistakes' when this was done. I believe that it was 'missed'. After all, this is a 32" bb, and the blank metal is exactly that - blank - the waves were never applied.

[John Truitt]

Mr. Cibelli,

That is a very nice gun with loads of potential.

Make of her what you want.
IMO: i would consider having the barrels re blued (rust blued as they appear to have been hot blued at one time byt eh presence of the lower rib weep holes), Restock her or have the existing stock modified to fit your dimensions ( you are not affecting her value since it is not an orginal stock/ so dont let that deter you). I would not have her re cased as I do not believe in this. I have seen several guns warped by the process. The original hardening is still there it is just the coloring is gone.

Enjoy the gun. The long barreled subgauge Parkers are a real treat. Hope to hear you get her out and bust some clays with her.

Give us your where abouts and I am sure myself or some of the other guys could stear you towards someone to reblue the barrels/ do some stock work for you.

[Richard Flanders]

How could a gun get out the door at Parker with missing rib matting? That sounds strange to me. I agree with the others: blue the bbls, recut the forearm checkering, put the correct grip cap on. If I had deep pockets I might restock it with a correct butt plate as well. That is a nice gun.

[Dean Romig]

Whoever you send the barrels to should be instructed to properly plug those four holes in the bottom rib that were drilled the last time the barrels were reblued.

Incidentally, Parker Bros. didn't make any "magnum 3 inch." twenty gauge guns in the 1905 era so please don't attempt to shoot 3" magnum ammunition in that gun.

[Dave Suponski]

That gun would have never left the factory with the rib matting in that condition. A good engraver can easily reengrave the wavy line matting. I have seen this done a few times.And the refinish the barrels. I agree with others have the stock made correct and put the correct grip cap on the gun.

[Anthony Cibelli]

According to "The Parker Story" occasionally a gun left with "chatter" - when the rib is double stamped. So, Iguess it is possible to "miss" a stamp.

[John Truitt]

Sir,

I would not sweat the rib. IMO that does not take anything away from that gun. If she were mine I would not waste my time or money trying to have that minor issue fixed.

She is a dandy. And IMO a VH is a lot better gun than a VHE. Shoot her up.

Iam sorry for giving my opinion only. If the rib does really bother you. Contact Simmons or an engraver. Charles Lee in California may be able to do something for you. I would expect this to get pricey though.

[Anthony Cibelli]

I am in Florida (central) if you know a good rust blue barrel guy - thanks

[Dave Suponski]

Mr. Cibelli, For the sake of clarity please read pages 426-427 of "The Parker Story" regarding the rib matting machine. This was a fully automated machine developed by Mr. Hayes. I believe the reference to "Chatter" had to do with the roll mark of the makers name on the rib. I have a D damascus gun with this occurence.Sorry for the lousy scan.

[John Campbell]

Anthony:
If it were me, I'd send the barrels to Brad Bachelder for blacking. What's a few dollars for UPS? If the buttstock is not original, you might cast around a while to see if you can find an original replacement. It's a No. 1 frame so there is a fair chance one might turn up. Try our "for sale" forum or ebay. A complete restock can cost you a bundle.

Your forearm needs more than rechequering. A good stocker should be able to bring it back along with a recut of the lines. Again... Bachelder if you are not a pro yourself.

As for the frame, try cleaning it up with a worn dishwash "scrubbie" and some Hoppes for lubricant. Go carefully and try to leave colour in the engraving. It should look very nice.

Best, Kensal

PS: I agree that the rib matt spots might well have been a factory botch.... mostly due to the added rib length/roll die capability.

[Chuck Bishop]

I just don't believe that rib would have ever left the factory in that condition. I've seen entries in the stock books where the supervisor wasn't satisfied with the work and sent it back for rework.

I'd get it to a good barrel man and get his opinion as to how it might have happened but regardless, it is what it is now. I would probably get the matting re engraved and get it re blued properly.

Nice gun!

[Anthony Cibelli]

thanks for all the imput

as far as the "chatter" - I was only trying to point out that not all Parker guns left the factory "perfect"
I agree with - Kensal PS: I agree that the rib matt spots might well have been a factory botch.... mostly due to the added rib length/roll die capability.

2 questions - is the "scrubbie" metal?
- where is Brad Bachelder?
thanks Tony

[Dean Romig]

might well have been a factory botch.... mostly due to the added rib length/roll die capability.
thanks Tony


Tony
You apparently missed Dave Suponski's response along with the picture of the Parker Bros. rib matting machine. The 'wavy line' rib matting was not roll-die applied and therefor was not subject to the "chatter" or double stamp caused by it.
Dean

[John Campbell]

Anthony:
It's a "scotch brite" pad... the kitchen sink type is just a tad too rough... which is why I recco a worn one. But you might find "softer" versions locally.

Bachelder is in Grand Rapids MI... just put the name into the google box for his site.

Best, Kensal

I stand corrected on the rib matting... most shops would have rolled it on. But not Parker!

[Brian Dudley]

Though the rib matting MAY have been a factory botch, it would be a good idea to at least look into getting it fixed. The cost may be reasonable and worth the expense. It may be money well spent considering that some perspective purchasers might be chased away from paying top dollar for such a defect.

[Frank Srebro]

Anthony, you've really got something to look forward to once you get her in the field. Sorry for my tangent here but I wanted to comment on the 20 gauge, 3-inch performance.

Last spring I found a straight grip VH Parker at show up north. Gun is a 12 gauge, 2 frame, 32-incher, and it came with a spare 2 frame, 32-inch 20 gauge barrel and its forend. The 20 gauge barrel is serial numbered to another gun, and checks out as a factory 3-inch. I pulled out all the stops and had the spare barrel and forend fitted, and ended up with a two-barrel set in time for the first waterfowling gig last fall.

The "Super 20" Parker took five Canadas with ease on the shores of the St Lawrence river in northern NY. It was a test of sorts..... my buds let me shoot first at the tallest, farthest bird that was in range. On both days we had one decoy at ~50 yards to mark the farthest bird I'd take. 5 birds dropped with 8 shots, using BCC 20 gauge/3 inch shells with 1-1/16 oz of #4 bismuth. This 20 gauge barrel is choked F & F. Overall I'd say the 20 gauge didn't lose much against my buds' Benelli SBE, a Super-X 3, and an 870 3 inch pump gun - all using steel shot. Nope she isn't a 20 gauge HE Grade Super Fox, but is probably the closest I'll get to one at a reasonable cost. From this admittedly limited test I'd say those purists who bought those 20 gauge long-barreled, tightly choked Parkers back in the day, knew what they could do if pointed right.

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_8961-1.jpg

[John Campbell]

Anthony:
While I hesitate adding to this already over-long thread, I highly recommend that you not use 3-inch 20-bore cartridges in the gun once it's restored. Even high-velocity 2 3/4" cartridges are not a good choice. Why? Because you gain very little in performance and put a colossal strain on the gun's stock - not to mention your shoulder.

Virtually every American walnut stocked Parker I've ever taken to bits has a cracked stock head. Mostly from aged wood combined with the use of overloaded ammunition.

But it's your gun. You are certainly free to do what you like.

Best, Kensal

[Anthony Cibelli]

Dean - did not miss it - only pointing out that not all Parkers left the factory perfect regardless of the process - thanks!

[scott kittredge]

Anthony, you've really got something to look forward to once you get her in the field. Sorry for my tangent here but I wanted to comment on the 20 gauge, 3-inch performance.

Last spring I found a straight grip VH Parker at show up north. Gun is a 12 gauge, 2 frame, 32-incher, and it came with a spare 2 frame, 32-inch 20 gauge barrel and its forend. The 20 gauge barrel is serial numbered to another gun, and checks out as a factory 3-inch. I pulled out all the stops and had the spare barrel and forend fitted, and ended up with a two-barrel set in time for the first waterfowling gig last fall.

The "Super 20" Parker took five Canadas with ease on the shores of the St Lawrence river in northern NY. It was a test of sorts..... my buds let me shoot first at the tallest, farthest bird that was in range. On both days we had one decoy at ~50 yards to mark the farthest bird I'd take. 5 birds dropped with 8 shots, using BCC 20 gauge/3 inch shells with 1-1/16 oz of #4 bismuth. This 20 gauge barrel is choked F & F. Overall I'd say the 20 gauge didn't lose much against my buds' Benelli SBE, a Super-X 3, and an 870 3 inch pump gun - all using steel shot. Nope she isn't a 20 gauge HE Grade Super Fox, but is probably the closest I'll get to one at a reasonable cost. From this admittedly limited test I'd say those purists who bought those 20 gauge long-barreled, tightly choked Parkers back in the day, knew what they could do if pointed right.

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_8961-1.jpg

i have killed about 8 to 10 with my 20's with 7/8 th oz of bismuth 6's reloads. not my 1st pic for goose but works in a pinch:whistle: oh i do love my 30 in VHE 20 :bowdown:

[Anthony Cibelli]

Frank - thank you for the VH story! I love it. And your Parker is beautiful. Who did the work? I am leaning toward having the entire gun restored.

Kensal - I'll probably never use 3" shells. The gun will be more for sporting clays.

B. Dudley - undecided about the "botched" rib. The VH has a certain history (either way)

Tony

[Frank Srebro]

Tony, the 20 gauge barrel & forend fitting was done by Dewey Vicknair, well known to most of the Parker brethren.

Just a few words on shooting 20 gauge/3-inch BCC factory shells in this gun ...... remembering our physics classes, the recoil transferred to the head of the stock is based on only three parameters: mass of the ejecta (shot, wads and powder gasses), velocity of the ejecta, and mass of the gun. Pressure of the load is not a consideration.

Now let's figure...... The 20 gauge BCC ejecta is lighter than many 12 gauge loads the VH was designed for. And let's assume the 20 gauge velocity is about the same as the 12 gauge with comparable hunting loads. And we'll keep in mind the gun is significantly heavier with the 20 gauge/3-inch barrel mounted, than is is with the factory 12 gauge barrel. Ergo, less recoil is transferred to the head of the stock when shooting the 3-inch BCC 1-1/16 oz loads than when shooting something like 1-1/8 ounce 12 gauge hunting loads. Way less than when shooting 1-1/4 ounce 12 gauge hunting loads.

This VH has been out on the sporting course many times. Those 32-inch 20 gauge barrels point like a magic wand
http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/post5-8.jpg

Plenty of mass in either set of barrels
http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/post2-11.jpg

[John Truitt]

that is one incredable 20 ga. very nice. thanks for sharing with us.

[Daryl Corona]

Great photos Frank. You know you are preaching to the choir here touting the beauty of long barreled smallbores. I just wish I could afford a 32" 20 Fox let alone find one. I did find a real clean 20ga., 28" Sterly with killer dimensions at the UP shoot last week. Probably paid a little too much for it but what the hell. She's got great triggers and IM/F chokes. The search goes on.

[Frank Srebro]

Thanks all for your kind comments. :)

Daryl, yep I too have been chasing 32" smallbore Foxes forever, without any luck. I slobber all over a friend's 32"/20 gauge Sterlingworth every time I'm in his gun room. I shot it on a sporting course a few times - and that's not helping any. Sounds like you had a good time at the UP shoot. I just couldn't make it this year but Mark's pictures made me feel like I'd been there. Good deal on your 16 Sterlingworth find. A little more cash paid for a nice gun, reverses in the long run when you're handing, shooting and hunting with her. But I'm sure all us in the choir know that. Can you make the Hidden Hollow & Rock Mtn S x S Challenge on August 18-19? If so maybe we can shoot together = warmup of sorts for the AHF Championship at the VC. Frank

[Brian Dudley]

[QUOTE=undecided about the "botched" rib. The VH has a certain history (either way)

Tony[/QUOTE]

Tony, well one thing is for sure, if those areas are not low, then they are original. We may never know what caused it, and it is good for conversation. If you decide to leave as is, it is for good reason. Just another unanswered question.

If you decide to have the gun restored, let us know how it comes out. We would all love to see it.

[Larry Frey]

Can you make the Hidden Hollow & Rock Mtn S x S Challenge on August 18-19?

Frank,
I had not heard of this August shoot. Is it new or is it an annual event?

[Bill Murphy]

Annual shoot over two courses a few miles apart. Ernie's site should explain the particulars. hiddenhollowsportingclays.com

[Frank Srebro]

Bill is correct on the annual shoot. See Events tab on Ernie's website which is here:

http://www.hhhsc.net/

In the past it's been 100 birds each at Hidden Hollow and at Rock Mountain Sporting Clays, both in northeastern PA. Rock Mtn. is hosting this year's PA SC Championship held over 4 days in July. (The Side by Side combo shoot is August 18 & 19. Or, I should say the 18th OR the 19th.) You can shoot both courses in one day and in fact, that's what many shooters do. The two clubs are about 20 minutes or so apart. Mike, who along with his wife Susan are owners of Rock Mtn, is a SxS shooter himself and he sets great targets. I hope this is helpful. Frank

Link to the Rock Mountain website is here:

http://www.rockmountainclays.com/index.html

A wonderful day or days out with the SxS's and our friends. What could be nicer? Frank

[Jay Gardner]

Curious what a 90% condition, 20 ga., VHE, straight stock, Silvers Pad, #1-frame, 32" barrels and 3' chambers would be worth if it lettered that way?

[Daryl Corona]

Frank,
A 32" 20ga Sterly! Heart please be still. I bet she is sweet. Does anyone know how many 32" 16's and 20's were produced? I picked up a 20 at the UP shoot not a 16. Already have a couple 16's. This is my first 20 Fox. This shoot sounds like fun so I might be in touch to plan a trip. Ernie's is only 4 hrs. from here- a piece of cake compared to the UP trip. If you say It's worth the trip I trust you. Any one else interested? Larry, Dave, Dean, or any of the other Hollow Boys. Could be a fun weekend.

[Robert Rambler]

Daryl, Last year Jent ,JD,and I shot the Hollow/Rock Mt. Challenge, we had a great time. You've shot the hollow so you know what thats about,the Rock is just as much fun/challenging. We shot the Hollow on Sat. and the Rock on Sunday. It's worth the trip.:)

[Frank Srebro]

Daryl, sorry about the 20 and 16 mixup on the Sterlingworth you snagged at the UP Shoot. My eyes saw 20 and my fingers typed 16; must be something lurking in my subconscious. :rolleyes: Sorry to say there is no number or % on the occurance of 32-inch smallbore Steringworths. No one has ever copied/analyzed the production cards for Sterlingworths which would be a massive task, even just for the smallbores. Suffice to say that reports by those of us who have been Fox nuts for years, are that they are very very rare. The 20 gauge 32-incher I referred to earlier is owned by a friend who is well known amongst Parker and Fox people and I can ask him to bring it to the Hidden Hollow/Rock Mtn SxS Combo shoot, for check out by those who might want to look at it. It isn't for sale, or at least it wasn't the mucho times I asked in the past.

I'll add here that I spoke with Ernie yesterday and he confirmed that the SxS Combo can be done in one or two days, shooter's choice. He did say many folks do it over two days for a longer time in the summer weather and settings, and with SxS friends. Those who've shot Hidden Hollow before know that a good part of the course is set for quick grouse type targets, Ernie's specialty. Rock Mountain is more of a conventional sporting clays course and Mike sets really good targets that aren't eye tests. As I mentioned previously Rock Mtn is hosting the PA State SC Championships on July 12 thru 15. Mike told me on Sunday that he bought 50 brand new Lincolns in prep for the State Shoot, to supplement his older traps. He's also put in a brand new sub-gauge course.

Hopefully you, Bob and others can make the shoot either for one day, or both. I typically shoot both courses on one day but it wouldn't take much to bend my arm to a two day/twice through gig. I can also offer up a seat and the back of my shooting rig for carrying guns and ammo. Frank

[Larry Frey]

Any one else interested? Larry, Dave, Dean, or any of the other Hollow Boys. Could be a fun weekend.

I just noted it on my calendar. If nothing else comes up between now and then I will likely be there. While shooting clays with Dave S. this weekend he expressed an interest in attending as well.

[Anthony Cibelli]

I'll probably leave the 3 "missed" areas alone - it is unique
I'll get the gun restored
Does anyone have a VH stock for sale? - 16 or 20 or 12 would work
mine is a #1 frame gun
Tony

[Anthony Cibelli]

Was a VH grade Parker ever available with a teardrop stock? even as a special order?
thanks Tony

[Brian Dudley]

Not as standard. Who knows if it was ever a special order option. Anything could have been done I suppose.

[Dave Noreen]

The 3-inch Magnum 20-gauge was a 1950s item. I think the first commercial listing was the Magnum Model 21 in the January 2, 1954, Winchester catalogue. However, there are no 3-inch 20-gauge shells listed in the January 2, 1954, Winchester Ammunition catalogue and price list!?! The Olin brothers and their buddies had been playing around with 3-inch 20-gauge Model 21s for some time before that. In the 1955 Winchester ammunition catalogue the 20-gauge 3-inch Mag. is offered with 1 1/8 ounce of Lubaloy #6 or 1 3/16 ounce of Lubaloy #4. That same year the 2 3/4 inch "magnum" shells were introduced with the 1 1/2 ounce in 12-gauge, 1 1/4 ounce in 16-gauge and 1 1/8 ounce in 20-gauge. The 3-inch 20-gauge Mag. offerings remained the same throught the 1959 price list. For 1960 the 3-inch 20-gauge magnum with 1 1/4 ounce of chilled shot was added to the offereings, while the Lubaloy loads were still 1 1/8 and 1 3/16. The Winchester/Western offerings in 3-inch 20-gauge shells remained the same thru 1968 where my old catalogues play out.

Three-inch shells have been around just about as long as cartridge shotguns have been around. In my 1903 UMC catalogue there were 12-gauge paper shells 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch. The 16-gauge was available 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. The 20-gauge was offered in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. In those days the "standard" 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge, 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge and 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells carried a slightly milder maximum load than the 2 3/4 inch and longer shells. The advantage of the 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch shells was more and better wadding for a better gas seal which many serious Pigeon shooters thought to be an advantage. The heaviest loads offered in the 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells were 2 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder pushing 7/8 ounce of shot, or 18 grains of Ballistite or Infallible dense smokeless powder pushing the same 7/8 ounce of shot. In the 2 3/4 inch 20-gauge case, one could get 2 1/2 drams bulk smokeless powder or 20 grains of Infallible or Ballistite dense smokeless powder, but still pushing 7/8 ounce of shot. The 3-inch 20-gauge for the famous Widgeon Duck Club Parker Bros. guns and the J. Stevens A & T Co. pump gun carried these 7/8 ounce loads, but more wadding.

These are the shells a Parker Bros. 20-gauge chambered for 3-inch shells with serial number 131424 would have been made for --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/20-gauge3-inchRem-UMCArrow.jpg

Same load in a 2 7/8 inch shell --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/20gaArrow27801.jpg

And, the same load from Peters Cartridge Co. --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Peters%20Cartridge%20Co/PetersPremier3-inch20-gauge.jpg

When Western Cartridge Co. showed the way to high velocity by introducing progressive burning smokeless powder loads as their new Super-X load about 1922, the 1 1/4 ounce 12- and the 1 ounce 20-gauge Super-X loads were put up in their 2 3/4 inch Field shell. It doesn't appear from my research that Winchester, Western or Remington offered their progressive burning powder 20-gauge shells in longer cases, but in the 1920s and 30s Peters Cartridge Co. did --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Peters%20Cartridge%20Co/PetersHigh-Velocityloads1927.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Peters%20Cartridge%20Co/20-gauge3-inch.jpg

[Anthony Cibelli]

Let me try to explain where I am going with my question about the "teardrop" stock
I have a DHE 20 gauge stock that was made for me. It has a skelton cut out on the butt and the tear drop mon the sides. I did not use it. The man that made it died. I was wondering if I could use it on the VH. The stock on the VH now is not original and it is ugly.

[Jay Gardner]

Up to you but it wouldn't be close to right. A 1-frame V-grade stock shouldn't be terribly difficult to find and you might be able to sell the D-grade stock, pay for the V-grade and get it fitted with little out of pocket.

[Brian Dudley]

You can always have that D grade stock fitted to your V grade and have the drop points removed as well as the SSBP. That is if you want it to be correct. But I think that stock is worth more as it is as being for a D grade.

[Mark Ouellette]

Anthony,

Most Parker collectors appreciate original guns followed by Parkers restored to as original. Your 32" VH 20 gauge is very rare and is worth very much to collectors who will pay in hundred dollar bills! Any money spent on upgrading it with a D Grade stock will be wasted because anyone willing to pay cash for a grand gun as you have will immediately pay to have an original VH stock fitted to it. Of course, the DH stock will lower the sale price.

I, like many here, learned the above the hard way. Keep your 32" VH 20 gauge as orignial as possible. If you do so when you or your heirs sell the gun to a humble collector, it will be done so at a profit rather than a loss.

Respectfully,
Mark

[charlie cleveland]

i really like the old shell posters and boxes...these are items of a grand long gone era...wish they would put a little more interesting logos on the boxes we buy now... charlie

[Anthony Cibelli]

I agree, Mark. Now all I need is an original VH stock!
who has one for sale?
thanks - Tony

[Anthony Cibelli]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I recently found a VH 20 gauge with 32 inch barrels on a # 1 frame.
The number is 131424. (from 1st page of thread)
thanks, Mark
Tony

[Rich Anderson]

Tony ck your PM's

[Anthony Cibelli]

done