Crack in VH barrel?

[Paul Bridges]

I have seen radial cracks in Damascus barrels, but I was just looking at a barrel that came from a VH that appears to have a crack about 1/2" long (looks pretty straight) running lengthwise about 4" below the choke. It looks like there was a dent raised from the area. Have any of you seen this sort of thing before? The barrel holds air pressure, but I haven't tried plugging it and filling it with gasoline to see if it actually leaks. I can sort of see it inside, but I'm not sure if I'm seeing a crack, or just remnants of the old dent.

If it is cracked can these be repaired? Or, is this yet another set of Parker barrels doomed to be cut?

If it can be repaired who can I send them to?

Thanks!! All thoughts and ideas welcome.

[Tom Carter]

I believe Brad Bachelder can lazer weld them, 616-459-3636. Cheers, Tom

[John Mazza]

How common are these radial cracks in damascus barrels ? I have twist barrels, and there is something in the left tube that looks like a radial crack. Are these cracks common, do they tend to be superficial, are they a death knell to a set of barrels ?

...or, can they be welded, as has been suggested here ?

It's a shame, 'cause I love the gun.

[edgarspencer]

Depending on it's orientation, a dent can turn into a crack when raised in twist barrels

[Drew Hause]

1903 H Grade Lefever "Best London Damascus Twist" with fractured barrel

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/16082038/247636155.jpg

Crack where a dent was (inexpertly) raised

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/18015717/291896656.jpg

The only fracture that I would weld and then shoot would need to be very close to the muzzle (where the pressure is much lower) and with an adequate wall thickness.
NO WAY would I shoot a gun with a crack in a dent welded. The wall thickness would likely be quite thin.

Or you could try this :shock:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/18015717/366299217.jpg

[Bruce Day]

JB Weld and some cold blue.

In all seriousness, I have seen a patch welded over a crack and the gun had shot fine for many years.

Not suggesting either of course. But maybe a person can defy convention, think outside the box. Cut the damaged barrel back and leave the other long. Write a Parker Pages article " A Most Unusual Parker" and wait for all the sages to pummel you.

[John Mazza]

Damn...

I guess I'll just use the right barrel.

[Dean Romig]

Today Damascus or Twist barrels with cracks are pretty rare. A radial crack or seperation is usually the result of imperfect joining of the iron and steel rods and most guns with barrels with this occurance have long since been rebarreled or destroyed in some manner. I would think most guns that would have blown a barrel because of imperfections would have done so by now if they were shot regularly.

[John Mazza]

I wonder of it's possible that it isn't a crack then ?????

Of course, what else could it be ?

I had the barrels inspected by "one of the best" - and he didn't really seem to see it (????). He never really gave me a good answer to "what IS it that I see ?" He lightly honed the bores, and that really cleaned up a lot of the minor pitting, but it didn't make the "crack" go away. "Off the record", he basically told me that "...if it was his gun, he'd just shoot it with light/appropriate loads."

As a layman, who am I to challenge his statement, but as an educated person - I know what I see, and I am uneasy...

I just wish it could be readily fixed by welding, without the weld looking real obvious.

[edgarspencer]

For piece of mind, you can use any of several NDT (Non Destructive Testing) methods to determine if what you're seeing is a real crack.
These methods include Radiographic inspection, Liquid penetrant inspection, Magnetic particle inspection or shear wave ultasonic inspection.
All of these can be performed by any of several nationwide testing companies, such as MQS, who have labs in all major manufacturing areas.
All, except Liquid penetrant, require expensive testing equipment, and are done by trained NDT, level II or Level III inspectors. You can buy a relatively inexpensive Liquid Penetrant test kit at most welding supply houses, and the basic test is not difficult, though level of severity in a detected result is only gotten from training and experience.
A less definitive test, but more a go-no go test is to use kerosene, which has a very low surface tension. Pour some kerosene down the barrel, making every effort to keep it from coming in contact with the outside. Allow it to sit a few minutes, drain it off, and dust the outside with baby powder. The kerosene will come through all but the tightest knit crack, and the baby powder will immediately absorb any that came through, showing a crack.

[charlie cleveland]

pauly you can take the barrels to any car engine rebuild shop that does valve grinding and head work...they will magna flux the barrels for you...this is nothing but a electric magnet with magnesium powders applied if theres a crack it will show up...cost should be very little...if you were in miss..i could do this for you....it definately will work...i also like the kerosine test... charlie

[Mark Ouellette]

Paul,

You stated that the crack was 4" below the chokes. Is that from the start of the choke constriction or from the muzzle? Either way the crack is between 4" and 8" from the muzzle. Your gun has first generation muzzle porting! :)

All kidding aside, please do not cut the barrels. The pressure in a barrel is low by the time the ejecta reaches that point. If the barrel walls ajoining the crack have at least .020" thickness then the crack should be able to be repaired to make the gun shootable.

Long ago I read something from Elmer Keith that for a crack or hole near the muzzle he soldered (silver soldered?) a piece of beer can (or other thin stock) to contain the pressure and continued to shoot the gun.

Send your barrels to someone like Brad B. who knows how to weld a crack in Damascus or twist barrels.

Mark

[edgarspencer]

..they will magna flux the barrels for you...this is nothing but a electric magnet with magnesium powders applied if theres a crack it will show up

Actually Charlie, It's powdered iron. Magnesium is non-magnetic. Dry powder magnaflux is generally a good inspection, but it would be difficult to do a thorough job, because the barrels, being long, and very narrow, can only be exposed to a magnetic field in basically one direction.
Your suggestion of going to an automotive shop isn't a bad one though, as most also to visable dye Liquid Penetrant testing, or flourescent penetrant (Similar, but uses a black light)
I thought the barrels in question were steel? Didn't I read V grade? They should be repairable.

[charlie cleveland]

thanks EDGAR i d always heard it called magna fluxing.... now maybe i can remember its iron filings and not magnesium...but any way it would be a cheap way to check for cracks in a gun barrel....charlie

[edgarspencer]

Magnaflux is actually a trade name of the MQS Co., (stands for magnaflux quality services) but the 'magna' stands for magnetic.
You mentioning magnesium reminded me how I got my a$$ kicked for playing with it in high school chem lab. Funny I remembered that and not anything important.

[Paul Bridges]

Kerosene, that is interesting. I will try that with the VH barrels. Somebody else told me to use gasoline. Fortunately this crack (if it is a crack) is located about 25" out on the barrel, and is on the bottom. My gunsmith suggested just shooting it, and when (or if) it fails cutting the barrels.

I think I will try the kerosene first. If that doesn't show anything, maybe I'll try the magnaflux thing. I think once I get the gun back from the gunsmith I'll measure the wall thickness too. It doesn't look like the barrels have been honed, so I may be in pretty good shape to have them welded. I am having them fitted to one of GH guns that had its barrels cut down (ironic ain't it!).

Thanks to all who contributed to this topic! I love being a PGCA member! You guys rock!!!

[edgarspencer]

Get a new gunsmith.

[Chuck Heald]

Get a new gunsmith.

I second that.