410 barrels arrived

[Chuck Heald]

UPS brought my CSM 410 barrels today. I tried them on the gun. They are just a little long and don't close completely. They will need fitting.

I ordered my barrels a long time ago. When I ordered, I asked that they leave the chokes full/full. They said they'd mark it on the order, but couldn't guarantee it, since the advertised chokes were Mod/IC. They measure .393 in both. I didn't get a bore measurement yet.

The rib matting is the same pattern as a factory repro, albeit lighter impressed. My new barrels weigh 3 lbs 1 7/8 oz vs the originals at 2 lbs 4 1/8 oz, or a 13 3/4 oz increase in weight. My gun comes in at 6 lbs 8 oz with the new barrels with a slight forward balance. While the weight is higher than I wanted, it feels like it will handle much better than the 5 lb 10 oz it weighs as a 28ga.

More later.

[ron belanger]

Interesting!
It would seem that the smaller gauge barrels "should" be lighter...any idea why they are heavier?
Good luck with the fitting up!

[Chuck Heald]

Ron,
The breach end is still the same diameter as the 28ga barrels and the barrels evidently don't taper down quickly to keep the weight down. I'll do some measurements of the O.D., but all that worrying about the forend gap might have driven CSM to hold the outside profile larger. I really don't know. It's definitely a disappointment to me. 14 oz more weight is a bunch on a 5 1/2-5 3/4 lb gun. I was pretty sure they would be heavier, but I was thinking maybe 4-6 oz. It could be a result of my friend who commisioned Remington/CSM build 410 barrels for his vintage 00 28ga who may have specified the weight. The Repro 410 barrels for the 00 frame, he was told are a direct result of his order.

On the otherhand, the gun weight will make for a nice swing.

[ron belanger]

Ron,
The breach end is still the same diameter as the 28ga barrels and the barrels evidently don't taper down quickly to keep the weight down. I'll do some measurements of the O.D., but all that worrying about the forend gap might have driven CSM to hold the outside profile larger. I really don't know. It's definitely a disappointment to me. 14 oz more weight is a bunch on a 5 1/2-5 3/4 lb gun. I was pretty sure they would be heavier, but I was thinking maybe 4-6 oz. It could be a result of my friend who commisioned Remington/CSM build 410 barrels for his vintage 00 28ga who may have specified the weight. The Repro 410 barrels for the 00 frame, he was told are a direct result of his order.

On the otherhand, the gun weight will make for a nice swing.

With a "helluva" follow through! :)

[Chuck Heald]

Ron,
IMO, the Parker 28ga barrels, even in 28", are very light at the muzzle end. Some may call it a majic wand or whatever. It's clear that they may be great for carry but more weight in the front of a 28ga would improve shooting with most shooters. But, jeeze...14 oz more? Really?

My finished gun will be 6 1/2 lbs. That's about 1/2 lb more than I would have liked.

This will make for a great target gun, but not my idea of my favorite .410 game gun. I may reconsider other gun purchases to get what I'm looking for again.

[ron belanger]

Hmmm...so the search for the perfect gun may continue...not necessarily, a bad thing, but nevertheless a process which may or may not ever be completed!
So, what is the 28 that you had the barrels made for?
I only have one repro (20ga) now and I'd love to get a hold of a nice 28 sometime too...and a 16 and a 410 and a couple of Parkers to boot...I may have a connection on a "lost" Parker through my girlfriend's widowed, Aunt as early as later next week when she visits her...I can dream!
I just wonder how many great guns are tucked away somewhere waiting to be found...

[Chuck Heald]

Hmmm...so the search for the perfect gun may continue...not necessarily, a bad thing, but nevertheless a process which may or may not ever be completed!
So, what is the 28 that you had the barrels made for?
I only have one repro (20ga) now and I'd love to get a hold of a nice 28 sometime too...and a 16 and a 410 and a couple of Parkers to boot...I may have a connection on a "lost" Parker through my girlfriend's widowed, Aunt as early as later next week when she visits her...I can dream!
I just wonder how many great guns are tucked away somewhere waiting to be found...

Ron,
I agree, the perfect gun is still elusive.

My 28ga is a repro 00 framed 28", straight stocked, splinter, single trigger. It weighs about 5 lbs 10 oz as a 28ga. It's a bit whippy but I shot it pretty well the other day at clays.

[Bill Anderson]

Sounds like yet another disappointment with CSMC. I don't why any one tries to carry on business with Tony Galazan. He is nothing but bad news!

Bill

[Pat Dugan]

To Chuck pm sent

I think the final consensus will be the CSM made a great product with the .410 Parker Repro barrels at a great price.

PDD

[Bill Anderson]

To Chuck pm sent

I think the final consensus will be the CSM made a great product with the .410 Parker Repro barrels at a great price.

PDD

To me, from what I have just read, it is not "great", but grief!!!

Bill

[Dave Fuller]

I think Galazan makes some really fantastic things (in the US by the way)... things you can buy nowhere else. Sadly, their customer service is not just bad, its non-existent. I hope people are able to make these .410 Barrels work. I frankly wish I had a set but past experience with their sales people would prevent me from even considering such a purchase.

[ron belanger]

I think Galazan makes some really fantastic things (in the US by the way)... things you can buy nowhere else. Sadly, their customer service is not just bad, its non-existent. I hope people are able to make these .410 Barrels work. I frankly wish I had a set but past experience with their sales people would prevent me from even considering such a purchase.

I apologize in advance if the "drift" of this thread is going slightly, off tropic...
I recently, purchased some accessories from them...granted, not something as expensive and precision as a set of barrels, but I had no problems with the transaction whatsoever. Of course, internet sales practically, take care of themselves but there still has to be a human being at their place of business to pick the items and get them shipped.

I'm wondering if the department(s) associated with manufacturing are staffed by less, personable types who have evolved to be less client oriented than others.
Not defending them in any way but perhaps a note to management expressing displeasure with your "service" would be appropriate.
I know that dealing with many gun oriented businesses over the years has yielded a plethora of results because of the "attitude" of an owner/worker...seems that in the gun sales business, there's PLENTY of this "attitude" to go around IMHO.

I sincerely, hope the original poster, Chuck, is able to get some satisfaction with his long awaited, much anticipated, purchase!

[John Dallas]

I was an early purchaser of one of the original RBL's (#198) I had a couple of issues, which they fixed within a week, and even refinished the gun in a oil finish, even tho the original specs called for a gloss urethane. No complaints from this corner.

[Kenny Graft]

I like the Repro 28ga. guns...I do find the 28ga to be a little light and wippy compaired to a 6 and a half lb. gun I normally shoot and takes a few shots to get ajusted to shooting it and hit my targets. My PR factory 410 set comes in at 6lbs-3oz and is slightly weight forward as most of the barrel mass is at the breach end. The 410 configeration matches my 16ga PR set in weight. It is 6lbs-4oz....I shoot the 410 very well when changing from one to the other. So I would say the added weight is not a bad thing for me....Know this...A original PR set with 410 barrels adds a minn of 7000.00 to the cost of a 28Ga set! That said CSM may have a good option for getting into a 410 SXS. Tanks all SXS ohio...(-:

[Chuck Heald]

Well, TBD on whether I'll find favor with the gun as a 6 1/2 lb .410 for hunting. But, I'm going to drop it off with Les Pittman either today or later in the week, for fitting the barrels.

[ron belanger]

Well, TBD on whether I'll find favor with the gun as a 6 1/2 lb .410 for hunting. But, I'm going to drop it off with Les Pittman either today or later in the week, for fitting the barrels.

What entails fitting the barrels if I may ask?
Is it hand (as in filing) or machining work?
And where is the problem area on the barrels if I may be nosey...? :p

[Chuck Heald]

Ron,
I checked the dollshead to barrel breachface fit by flipping the barrels over and the distance from the breach and dollshead dimensions let it fit the frame. So, no material removal from the breachface should be needed to fit the barrels. The material needs to come off the hinge (hook) fulcrum on these barrels for this gun. The barrels come within about .050" at the top of the frame/barrels of closing. I'm guessing that translates into maybe .010" material removal at the hinge.

I've not fitted a set of barrels but everyone that has told me they have, have fitted by hand work. File and polishing work of the hinge.

[Chuck Heald]

Les Pittman has the gun and barrels. We talked about the dollshead to breachface dimensions and I showed him the fit, he made some measurements and concluded the barrels should fit nicely and the firing pins will center when the top of the barrels are flush to the top of the frame. In a few weeks, I hope to find we are both right and both happy.

[ron belanger]

Ron,
I checked the dollshead to barrel breachface fit by flipping the barrels over and the distance from the breach and dollshead dimensions let it fit the frame. So, no material removal from the breachface should be needed to fit the barrels. The material needs to come off the hinge (hook) fulcrum on these barrels for this gun. The barrels come within about .050" at the top of the frame/barrels of closing. I'm guessing that translates into maybe .010" material removal at the hinge.

I've not fitted a set of barrels but everyone that has told me they have, have fitted by hand work. File and polishing work of the hinge.

Sounds like some minor work for a competent smith! Good luck to you and your new 410!

[Chuck Heald]

Got the gun back from Les lastnight. Looks great.

I had the original splinter forend fitted to these barrels for now. So, like the earlier recipient of .410 barrels from CSM, there is a small gap between the forend and barrels. If I am happy with the gun, I'll likely fit the other iron I have and put a BTFE on the barrels.

I'll shoot it over the weekend. Pix to follow.

[Linn Matthews]

If all other "things" with the CSM barrels are OK would it be feasible to file (should I say draw?) barrels to remove some of the excess weight?

Linn

[Chuck Heald]

My opinion would be no on the draw filing to reduce weight. You can't get between the ribs when the ribs are on and even if you strip the ribs it'd be very difficult. So, I'd say it's not practical. They are what they are.

Here's the promised pix.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_4379.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_4351.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_4350.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_4347.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_4346.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/roaniecowpony/DSC_4344.jpg

[Chuck Heald]

The balance point is about at the front edge of the hinge pin screw head.

[Russ Jackson]

Chuck ,They look really nice , the gun is Beautiful !!! Congratulations ! I love my 410 ,I am sure you will also ! Russ

[Dean Romig]

Looks darn good from here Chuck.

You say you had them fitted by someone other than CSMC... did CSMC fit them first and you may not have been satisfied?

[Chuck Heald]

Dean,
No, CSM didn't fit them. The barrels are made with some extra material in the areas needed to allow for variation of the guns and have enough material to be fitted.

The gunsmith I chose is a local guy that is known by some of the wealthy out this way. He's not cheap, but he isn't out of line either. He works on some pricey iron.

[Bobby Cash]

The last time I visited with Les I told him I mentioned to someone he was the best gunsmith west of the Mississippi. He suggested I might move that line further east. He really is that good.

[Chuck Heald]

Les is a great gunsmith and somewhat of an enigma. He is highly skilled and a good study. But he has the appearance and mannerisms that would lead you to believe he is a hayseed. Proof that judging a book by its cover is a mistake.

[Sam Ogle]

There is something about a modest, "hayseed" kind of expert that just makes everyone envious.
We, here in Lincoln, NE have a wood man who does repairs, etc. He won't build you a gunstock, but if he does something to your gun, His work is flat perfect.
He would blush if you told him this, but his renown and respect locally is that he is as good a wood man as you can find ANYWHERE.
If he tackles a project, you can expect perfection.
Sam Ogle

[Bill Murphy]

I like the question about filing weight off the barrels to make it shoot better, but the comment about "glad I didn't have to take metal off the breech face to make the barrels fit" was the winner. To be fair, I guess Chuck was referring to the barrels, not the receiver. I am happy that he chose a decent gunsmith to do the job.